Ha!

Farmer wrote:I heard a few days ago on radio that the Hampshire police will no longer be doing these stop and searches.

Hampshire Police will still be doing stop and searches in relation to other offences such as drugs possession, but not under the Terrorism Act.

My son was stopped, asked questions about a situation that happened in the area of a field in which he was in. The situation about stone throwing that had happened two days previous. My son was honorable when speaking with the Peace Officer and just thought he was being helpful. The Officer then requested my son to sign a form, then gave him a copy. My son is 11.
So i wrote a request for information to the chief commissioner,on procedure for obtaining a signature off a minor, who does not understand and with no representation.
I received a reply stating i was a third party intervener and they have proceeded to make this a complaint through there system as they cant answer my request.
That day a Peace Officer arrived at my home to reply to there own complaint. He was very helpful, honest and interested in my views.
He left with me requesting my sons signature returned, and that this record to which they have, be removed from there records immediately, with my understanding being, my son is to young to understand, then he can not consent, which makes it against the law to take something (signature) without consent from my son. This being the case there should be no record to be recorded, hence removal from there system. All of which was explained to the Officer.
My understanding is that if possessions are not returned then that would be theft.
So, weeks passed emails to and fro then finally: a legal response was due from the legal department of the Police department,
I am awaiting the Officer to return with there reply to my understandings which he has assured me there is an outcome.
The outcome, is what i wonder at present, but i will be sure to let you know the outcome.
Any observations or information is always welcome.

as always

Griffo

My immediate thoughts are WTF...they really don't care on any level - legality/lawful/moral.....

But I realise that isn't a helpful response.....and I'd say you're doing pretty much the right things....they had no right to take this from your son. But equally, I have no faith that they would remove the record even if you 'win'....they might say they have, how can we or they prove it....even if they were willing.

Farmer wrote:

AzziDePazzi wrote:

Farmer wrote:I heard a few days ago on radio that the Hampshire police will no longer be doing these stop and searches.

For what reasons?

They admitted it hasn't caught any terrorists.

Was it ever really intended to?
I don't think so. Stop and search is just another violation of our rights, an easy way to solve 'crime' (what's this, looks like a joint ) and a way to indoctrinate our children into beleiving that this (false)authority is an ordinary part of our lives (and subsequently theirs) which, whilst a little inconvenient will at least keep our streets free from fundamentalists hellbent on wiping us out.

Which is of course b****x because our politicians are more likely to be found on the rear seat of a global warming machine (only 4.0 litre and upwards please) than walking the streets amongst the people. Unless it's election time of course when they're trying their best to wrench your baby from you to kiss it

Peace and love
Chris

Highspirit wrote:Sorry Markie but that information is only half right but I am sure you have good intent. It seems you have lifted this straight out of a text book and there is so much more to it. I could spend an hour answering this and putting it right mate but I wont. The old bill can stop and search you for many reasons and don't always need to search you in the street either. They may not even need reasonable suspicion and you may be walking through an area that has been given a period of time authorised by a senior officer to just stop and search anyone they want to without any reasobale suspicion atall. This sis such a diverse subject and cannot be answered easily as it is so wide.

I do disagree Highspirit! Please see the Anti-terrorist for further information on this! Police NEED reasonable articulable suspiscion to allow them any stop and search powers! They do not, as it seems you intimate in your post above, "They may not even need reasonable suspicion", have the power to do as they wish!

peace to all.

Thank you,
Azzidepazzi,
for: what you wrote earlier i have copied it here and made some amendments (without predjudice )
Why am i being stopped?

Am i being suspected of something to cause you to stop me?

Is there a sworn testimony from an injured party against me?

Can i see a crime report?

do you have a crime number that i can call in about, prior to continuing ?< i don't understand that one

Can i see a photo of the person you think i apparently look like?

Do you have a right not to accept hearsay? i would say so!

what evidence do you have?

Which law obliges me to answer?
Is it a law, act or statute?
Which section is it in?
What does that part of the section say?
Can you clarify the section?

Does my possible destination have any relevance to the reason for the stop?

Am I obliged to answer any questions with regards to your dealings? under what LAW?
Do YOU have valid ID?

I WOULD LIKE to write these questions down?

Can you have a pen? i think i better start carrying a pad and pen...lol

Are they allowed to stop you under no suspicion? what does common law say?

Are you sure it's impractical to ask to see a crime report before being randomly suspected of the crime that they are stopping and searching you for? No,i think it is a very practical thing to do in your defense of being un lawfully harassed in the street by bullies in uniform...that is if you are a bully mr policeman?

Are they allowed to enforce a statute with no injured party? don't think so..

Are they allowed to enforce a statute on a living man?...that would not make common sense to me

Is it compulsory that you have to continue to stand there, that does not make sense either!

if you were not originally breaching the peace, offered no proof of the crime giving rise to the stop and if they are not detaining you? exactly!

Are they under an oath?
What is the oath?
Who does the oath protect? good questions to ask in my humble opinion...


Can you go now?

Are you being detained?[i]

This is just what i was looking for, i wanted to know what lawful right they have for hindering my right of passage ,so to speak?
what does the law say?

how , when, where and what is the reason under the law for even attempting to talk to me?
what rights do they have? as equals under common law

Can anyone tell me what reason i can be detained against my free will, even for one minute on the street, when all i am doing is going about my private business , do i have to by law tell anyone that? when i am causing no harm to anyone?

Peace, L.w
p.s
do the police swear an oath on the old King James bible,( Not being religious here at all, at all..as it is law according to some establishments.) the bible i mean is The one that has one page of truth in the beggining of genisis ( a loving creator god, that created man in his image and likeness ) and the rest a load of lies(a lord god that made things.and had anger, hate, and made humans feel fear) mixed in with a smidge of truth. so like rules and laws...do we know the difference between creating and making? and God and the Lord god?, thats for the religious bullies...i will leave it there.


Great stuff...when i walked the streets with my friend tramp years ago.. and once or twice stopped ,, we would both be asking them the same question ..albeit in different P,cars...it went something like this:
"Hello officer... what i would really like to know from an officer of the law is; 'What is the difference between rules and laws'?...then remain silent....lots of chatter ensued or complete silence and bewilderment depending on who was behind the uniform... then they just let us go..quick smart.
Some are human beings, we know that.. but not many.. and you can't tell by judging....we checked with a simple question that we KNEW, i.e. 100% the answer to, and left them to it..

Anyhow, Please do not believe me i may be the biggest liar you ever met..please check for your self ..it either is or it is not.
lwx
[/i][i][/i]

Well the crime number is probably the wrong term, but really, I'd want to know where the record exists with testimony on it that warrants the police asking me questions.

Also, no reason you can charge a fee schedule for any questions you do answer....

"Is that a request or an order?"

a) "Is there anything obliging me to deal with your request?"
b) "That will be £xxx, per question, this is my fee schedule"..."Shoot" *licks pen*

Sign the bill, have a copy and hand the instrument to the man. Don't forget to enforce it :)

Gordon Hall, rules to game of life audio on creditorsincommerce.com is well worth a listen for all.

ADP

Azzidepazzi, I like it...... how much could we charge for each question lol..


What do you think of this one....?
stopped by police..
why are you stopping me?...and all the questions we can think of...

Then, if they are not treating you as an equal man/woman depending on their treatment of you...etc...

I do not consent to contract for any services from you, thank you.
I am lawfully and peacefully, going about my own private, business, protected by Common law jurisdiction.
I am duty bound by my society, that only exists in common law jurisdiction.

Are you absolutley 100% sure you are acting within the Law of this land?
yes or no does not matter...
I am breaking no laws and i do not intend to.
Either arrest me for something that i have done that you think... is against the LAW,
Then i will be pressing charges against you and everyone else up the chain of command.
Or... I am on my way NOW.. good bye.

maybe not...is that too provocative? i think it sounds harsh?

I like yours its funnier...
"Is that a request or an order?" .....lol

a) "Is there anything obliging me to deal with your request?"
b) "That will be £100, per question, this is my fee schedule"..."Shoot" *licks pen*
Sign the bill, have a copy and hand the instrument to the man. Don't forget to enforce it :

or c) a fixed penalty for unlawfully harrasing/hindering a soverign freeman, and then £30 -£60 per question what do you think
thanks agin,
L.W

Hi again..
This is what i have found from the world freeman society etal

“Excuse me sir, would you mind if we asked you some questions?”
What you do immediately—you reach for your mobile phone and you activate the voice recording option, and you hold your phone up in plain view and you make sure the of?cer realises you are recording the conversation.

Then you say, “Hello, of?cer, I recognise your contact, what is the nature of the intended detention?” If he says you cannot record this conversation, what you say is,
“In that case, am I free to go?” If he says, “Yes, you’re free to go, “ you say, “Thank you for your time, goodbye.”
If he says, “No, you are not free to go,” you say again, “What is the nature of the intended detention?”

Always asking questions. Always in the master position. If he refuses to tell you what he is stopping you for, you ask him, “Did you witness me breaching the peace?”
to which he will reply either yes or no. If he says,
“No,” you say, “I am now reserving my right not to speak to a peace of?cer who has not witnessed me breach the peace. Thank you and good day.” And you walk away.

If he asks you for some identi?cation, you ask him if you are obliged to carry identi?cation.
If he asks you for your name, you ask him if you are obliged to give him your name.
The answer to both of those questions is, ‘No.’
If he says ‘Yes,’ he is acting fraudulently, he is not acting as a lawful police of?cer.
Again you say, “Am I free to go?” “Am I free to go?” "Am I free to go?" That’s it.
That’s all you say. “Am I free to go?” If they continue to detain you,
“Am I under arrest?” That’s all you say,
“Am I under arrest?” “Am I free to go?” “Am I under arrest?” “Am I free to go?” “Am I under arrest?”

If they continue to detain you, and they give you a sense that you are going to be arrested, you immediately say,
“Of?cer, I am a peaceful man, if you are going to arrest me there will be no reason for force or violence, however, you are obliged to note that I am operating under protest and duress at all times. I reserve all of my rights at all times and waive none of my rights at any time for any cause or reason.”
And then if they take you down to the station, the golden rule: Keep Your Mouth Shut, Say Nothing, Shut Up.
You do not give them permission to take your ?ngerprints.
You do not give your consent to ask you any further questions.
You do not give them consent to put their hands on you in any way, shape or form.
You do not have consent to touch me, of?cer.
You see, the key here is they can only police by consent.
When they are working with statutory regulations they need your consent.

Now if you’ve broken the law, and by the law I mean you’ve killed someone, or you have been in a serious accident and you’ve harmed someone else or damaged their property, or you’ve committed fraud in your contracts,
then you’ve broken the law and you need to take your punishment like a man.

But if we’re talking about statutory regulations, they all require your consent. The de?nition of a statute is a legislative rule of society given the force of law by the consent of the government—now that’s not consent given by the majority of the governed—that’s not consent by the majority of the governed,
that’s consent of the governed, that means you. Nothing happens without your consent with regards to statutory legislation.
Nothing. All the while you’re in the cell, just relax, get your head down, get an hour’s sleep, ignore all the confrontational stuff they throw at you, ignore all the intimidation, it’s all just tactics to get you to speak.
You are not required to give your ?ngerprints,
you are not required to give your DNA.
You are not required to give a blood or urine sample. Not without your consent.
Now if you want to waive your rights, you can do that at any time by opening your mouth or giving them what they want, but the only way you are going to get out of that cell in a few hours, or 12 hours or 24 hours or whatever it is, is by shutting up.
Without the information you give them out of your own mouth, they have to release you, it’s as simple as that.

What you’ll ?nd as you’re asking these of?cers questions, instead of blindly submitting to their faux authority, is they’ll look at you like you’ve just shown a dog a new card trick... :-D

It’s a completely alien experience for them, being asked questions. They are used to asking the questions—
”You don’t ask me questions, I’m an of?cer of the law.”
Until you’ve established probable cause, my friend, there’s a Roman maxim in law that says, Equality before the law is paramount and mandatory.
That means before you have established that I’ve done anything wrong, you and I are on an equal footing, my friend, no matter what uniform you’re wearing. So you will treat me with respect, and you will speak across to me and not down to me or I will not assist you in any way, shape or form.

Now most of?cers are very courteous and polite, but I’ve been witness to many abuses of power, especially since the new statutory legislation came out. Stop and search powers are being abused left, right and centre, and the ones that are suffering are the ones that don’t know they simply have to say,
“No. I do not consent—I’m not consenting to any searches today, thank you very much.” “Am I free to go?” “Am I under arrest?” “Am I free to go?” “Am I under arrest?”

Now, the law rabbit hole is a very deep one, and it’s also a very accessible one. You need to go to a site called www.thinkfree.ca (external link) and there you’ll ?nd many, many tools that will give you a lot of freedom, along with many friendly and experienced people who have a great understanding of the law and know how to deal with these lawyers and these police of?cers that are operating illegally and unlawfully, and they will give you a great deal of insight into what is going on in the world at the moment. (taken from the world freeman society. 30/11/09)

Hope thats clearer...
Lw