Electrical current

Re: Electrical current

Postby pitano1 » Sun May 19, 2013 7:23 am

hi hr
thanks for reply.
please exscuse me,but i cant resist... :grin:


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Re: Electrical current

Postby huntingross » Mon May 20, 2013 9:38 pm

Pitano, this guy is flat out hilarious. I've watched his other videos too and I can't work out if he's legit or not.....either way very funny.

Fixing a light bulb had me spluttering for ages after....people at work wondering what I was up to.

Ta for posting
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Re: Electrical current

Postby huntingross » Wed May 29, 2013 10:44 pm

This topic is far from my specialty, but here is the result of a few days research to make sure my ground is firm in response to Scottish Power.

In my pursuit of this, and my interest in magnet motors I came across this fascinating video -


Now you’ll note how the Counter (Back) EMF referred to as the ‘Witch’ is denoted as a battery in opposition to the applied voltage. This counter voltage is developed in ‘inductor’ circuits by the alternating current being applied. Batteries are storage elements. Notice also how the example for a 12v supply, the Witch equates to 9v ie. three quarters of the supply voltage.


You’ll see that ‘inductor’ circuits are also called ‘reactor’.

Energy storage elements such as inductance and capacitance may result in periodic reversals of the direction of energy flow.


Reactive power

Reactive power flow is needed in an alternating-current transmission system to support the transfer of real power over the network. In alternating current circuits, energy is stored temporarily in inductive and capacitive elements, which can result in the periodic reversal of the direction of energy flow. The portion of power flow remaining, after being averaged over a complete AC waveform, is the real power; that is, energy that can be used to do work (for example overcome friction in a motor, or heat an element). On the other hand, the portion of power flow that is temporarily stored in the form of magnetic or electric fields, due to inductive and capacitive network elements, and then returned to source, is known as reactive power.

AC connected devices that store energy in the form of a magnetic field include devices called inductors, which consist of a large coil of wire. When a voltage is initially placed across the coil, a magnetic field builds up, and it takes a period of time for the current to reach full value. This causes the current to lag behind the voltage in phase; hence, these devices are said to absorb reactive power.

A capacitor is an AC device that stores energy in the form of an electric field. When current is driven through the capacitor, it takes a period of time for a charge to build up to produce the full voltage difference. On an AC network, the voltage across a capacitor is constantly changing – the capacitor will oppose this change, causing the voltage to lag behind the current. In other words, the current leads the voltage in phase; hence, these devices are said to generate reactive power.

Energy stored in capacitive or inductive elements of the network give rise to reactive power flow. Reactive power flow strongly influences the voltage levels across the network. Voltage levels and reactive power flow must be carefully controlled to allow a power system to be operated within acceptable limits.

Power factor

The ratio between real power and apparent power in a circuit is called the power factor. It's a practical measure of the efficiency of a power distribution system. For two systems transmitting the same amount of real power, the system with the lower power factor will have higher circulating currents due to energy that returns to the source from energy storage in the load. These higher currents produce higher losses and reduce overall transmission efficiency. A lower power factor circuit will have a higher apparent power and higher losses for the same amount of real power.

The power factor is unity (one) when the voltage and current are in phase. It is zero when the current leads or lags the voltage by 90 degrees. Power factors are usually stated as "leading" or "lagging" to show the sign of the phase angle of current with respect to voltage.
Purely capacitive circuits supply reactive power with the current waveform leading the voltage waveform by 90 degrees, while purely inductive circuits absorb reactive power with the current waveform lagging the voltage waveform by 90 degrees. The result of this is that capacitive and inductive circuit elements tend to cancel each other out.

So the portion of power flow that is temporarily stored in the form of magnetic or electric fields, due to inductive and capacitive network elements, and then returned to source, is known as reactive power.…….The power is returned……9v of 12v supplied in the example.

The utility's electric meter measures the integral of the voltage times the current, so measures only real energy delivered. The utility doesn't like highly reactive loads because it causes currents in the transmission system, which waste power by I**2 * R losses which they can't bill for. This is why large electric customers get charged in part by the power factor. This is basically a measure of how far off you'd be assuming the product of independently measured voltage and current gave you real delivered power. For a purely resistive load, the voltage and current are in phase and the power factor is 1. That's what the utilities like. The worst case are purely capacitive or purely inductive loads. The voltage and current are 90 degrees out of phase, so no real power is delivered, and the power factor is 0.

In general, the power grid looks somewhat inductive. Utilities combat this various ways. These include banks of capacitors, nagging legistlators to force appliances to have better power factors, and running their generators a little out of phase. The utility term for the latter is "reactive power". In most cases you're actually doing the utility a favor by plugging a little capacitance into your outlet.

For resistive loads (tungsten light bulbs) the power factor is 1, for purely inductive or capacitive loads (reactive – fridge motors etc ) the power factor is 0 (zero) so no ‘real power’ is delivered. Electric meters measure ‘only real energy delivered’.

They don’t like reactive loads because they cant bill for it, even though they get the power back. Does double dipping ring any bells ? If they get it back AND can bill for it then ‘power factor conditioning’ built in makes sense plus WE pay for the expense of buying it built in.

Most modern home appliances that have inductive loads, such as air conditioners and refrigerators, come with power factor conditioning built in.


There is truth in the fact that our homes have devices which consume electricity at reduced power factors. As an example we know that "CFL light bulbs" have a Power factor of between 55% and 70%, while incandescent light bulbs have a power factor of 100%. All electric motors, including fridges, air conditioners, fans and computers generate reactive power which will affect a circuits power factor.

Based on the above information it sounds logical that a technology which corrects power factor would save money.

But this is NOT a correct conclusion at all. Improving consumer power factor, assuming the technology works as claimed, has ZERO affect on the amount of money a consumer is charged for electricity.

A reduced power factor does not mean lost electricity, it means that the phase of the electricity has been moved away from the the optimal of 100%. The costs of this inefficiency are real, but they are in the distribution losses to the utility, who must deliver the power and then receive it back. At time of peak demand this can cause extra costs as the utilities bring less efficient equipment on line to meet the demand, but it is a complex topic and one where industrial consumption is a much bigger issue than consumer.

Almost all consumers share a distribution circuit with other home owners. Power factor phase shift is the net of all power phase shift on a circuit. It is quite possible that one home owners phase shift is the correction of another home owners. This is why consumers cannot individually address this issue, it is a matter for the utilities and device manufacturers.
Commercial and industrial supply are a different issue all together, here dedicated circuits are in place, and correcting the power factor directly affects the utility, and savings are allowed. But again, they are distribution adjustments, not 35% savings as might be though from the name "power factor".

So if I have understood this at all, or even slightly, the supplied alternating current develops a counter voltage in the reactor circuit. The reactive power is returned to the supplier but is not metered as the meter only registers ‘real power’. By conditioning the power factor the suppliers can meter more of the power whilst still receiving the delivered power back. Therefore they get their power back to sell it over and over again whilst being able to meter more and more of it and thereby ‘double dipping’
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Re: Electrical current

Postby enegiss » Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:07 pm

heres a good read HR, ime not a scientist and havent got to much understanding on the overall context of the thread title other than to say "it hurts" :grin: , but like many others, i find it an interesting study.

its from the 90,s


a taster, so you dont waste your time as its quite a read.

The Dipole Extracts Enormous Energy from the Vacuum

The outflow of EM energy extracted from the vacuum by a small dipole is enormous. It fills all space surrounding the attached external circuit (e.g., surrounding the power lines attached to a power plant generator) { }. In the attached circuits, the electrical charges on the surfaces of the wires are struck by the mere edge of the violent flow of EM energy passing along those surfaces. The resulting tiny "intercepted" part { } of the EM energy flow is deflected into the wires, very much like placing one's hand outside a moving automobile and diverting some of the wind into the car. This deflected energy that enters the wires is the Poynting component of the energy flow. It is not the entire EM energy flow by any means, but only a very, very tiny component of it { }.

Only that tiny bit of the energy flow that is actually diverged into the wires, is used to power the circuit and the loads. All the rest of the enormous energy flow that is present and available outside the circuit, is just ignored and wasted.
A nominal 1-watt generator is actually one whose external circuit can "catch" only 1 watt of its output. The generator's actual total output — in the great flow which fills all space around the external circuit and is not intercepted and used — is something on the order of 10 trillion watts!

Our Scientists and Engineers Design Dipole-Destroying Systems

Here is the most inane thing of all. Precisely half of the small amount of energy that is actually caught by the circuit, is used to destroy the dipole! That half of the intercepted energy does not power the load, nor does it power losses in the external circuit. Instead, it is used to directly scatter the dipole charges and destroy the dipole.

Our scientists and engineers have given us the ubiquitous closed current loop circuit { }, which destroys the dipole faster than it powers the load. In short, the scientists and engineers design and build only those electrical power systems that "continuously commit suicide" by continuously destroying the source dipole that is extracting the vacuum energy and emitting it out along the circuit to power everything in the first place.

So now we have the real picture.

Every electrical load ever powered, and every load powered today, has been and is powered by electromagnetic energy extracted directly from the seething vacuum by the source dipole in the generator or battery.
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Re: Electrical current

Postby squark » Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:06 pm

I just found this excellent series again. I watched it ages ago and understood very little. Not so bad this time around. Erm yes.....?
Tom Bearden at his best!!


Its one to know of, at least , so you know of the lies of our politicians and power suppliers.
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Re: Electrical current

Postby huntingross » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:19 pm

7 months on.

No further forward. There have been threats of all sorts. They even claimed the Bank cancelled the Direct Debit to allow them to claim the extortionate under guessed guess immediately.

No proof of wayleave for 3 no. poles.

I will update at some point, hopefully with some positive news.
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Re: Electrical current

Postby holy vehm » Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:55 am

We shall wait with baited breath :grin:
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Re: Electrical current

Postby kenb » Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:21 pm

We've had this sort of crap from edf this year too, they sent a notice of legal action out of the blue in January claiming the we owed £897 for no apparent reason! It took us 3 months of asking for their proof of the charge because we hadn't used any more electricity than before and the price is a fixed one until 2014, so we had to have either doubled our usage or they had to have doubled their price to make that valid, anyway they gave up in the end after all the BS letters saying the same thing in different words from different people, they also tried this one on my Gran a couple of years back.
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Re: Electrical current

Postby no_ta » Tue Dec 24, 2013 8:21 pm

I don't want to dampen your spirits, but there is no energy going back to the grid, there is only energy used, why do you think a light bulb glows, why does a motor turn, it is purely a matter of energy consumed. In the case of ac electricity, the current is derived from the potential difference of the live and neutral and the resistance of the device being energised.
Power is derived from the voltage and current and is expressed in watts (volts x amps).

So unless I have dramatically missed the point of your argument, there is no way you could argue that energy returns to the supplier, this notion would be laughed out of any court.

Try it yourself, get an ac generator and connect it to whatever you like, if as you say the energy returns, where is it?

Another example is your cars alternator; it generates ac voltage (just like the electric in the grid), which is converted to dc to supply the vehicle and battery with power, where does the unused energy go? There isn't any, as current is limited to the demand of the circuits, the battery being the dump for any excess, until the maximum voltage is reached.

To take things a little further but delve into the more technical aspect would be with PME systems, these bond neutral to earth, and if we take an example of neutral being disconnected, the circuit would still (depending on protection beakers) work, which illustrates that nothing would be going back to the supplier.

Don't get me wrong I detest these foreign owned companies with a vengeance, all I would say here is to control your use and never allow a smart meter into your premises.

There has been some debate regarding dirty electric, this is when a small potential exists between neutral and earth, gathered this would be free. Might be enough to charge a small battery, but so would the phone line.

Please before anyone goes tinkering with electric bear in mind it can kill. What is needed is to be free of foreign suppliers and eventually to develop free energy.
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Re: Electrical current

Postby huntingross » Tue Dec 24, 2013 11:42 pm

There are sufficient links here and multiple more on the net to dispute the conventional theory.

Then there are the Single Wire Earth Return systems that only have a single conductor with the earth providing the RETURN path...which sounds very much like the Tesla method of 'transmitting' power. It was Tesla that demonstrated that the conventional theory on radio transmission around the globe within the narrow band of the atmosphere was impossible, and that none of the broadcasting stations would work if they removed their ground wire, which was actually the method of transmission - directly through the earth...ie POWER.

Anyhoo...if the conventional system can be sustained, it has taken them 7 months to say nothing. I have first hand experience of a Physics teacher peaking the interest of a class on a matter which is considered to be 'text book'. Then there is the Scottich Gas network engineer I spoke to by chance about my recent dealings with Scottish Power who finished my sentence for me before I could blurt it all out...'that it goes back down the other wire'...oh, and the time served Scottish Power linesman 6 months ago who was lost for an explanation but was going to find out...I never heard from him again, just like his HQ.

I openly admit to being out of my depth on this subject, but the text books are coming up short upon close scrutiny...and to someone who's business it is to 'know' power, then it should be easy to dismiss my question and demand their ridiculous claim...YET...nothing and their claim has vanished.

I say ODD.
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