Making the person disappear.

Making the person disappear.

Postby jonboy » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:46 pm

I have spent the last few days, trying to remove myself from data bases, closing accounts, leaving clubs and organisations etc. My efforts so far with HSBC are documented in my topic on this forum 'HSBC the joy!' .
I realised as I was doing this, the serious implications of seemingly innocent things such as tesco clubcard. It claims to be a customer loyalty scheme, but in reality is a tool for knowing our whereabouts, and what we are buying, lets imagine a packet of crisps and a banana milkshake are found at a murder scene, I bought similar items earlier in a nearby tesco, paid with cash but used my clubcard, I now become a suspect, maybe the only suspect, If no other evidence comes to light. food for thought.....
"Reason is the life of the law; nay, the common law itself is nothing else but reason. The law which is perfection of reason" Sir Edward Coke 1552-1634.

NO ONE RULES IF NO ONE OBEYS.

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Re: Making the person disappear.

Postby Veronica » Tue Mar 03, 2009 11:51 pm

Oh yes ... get rid of all that stuff! That's all done to track & trace you.

Like Mobile Phones.

Don't take part in surveys ... that's just to determine whether or not the 'programming within the adverts' is working or not ... that's all they care about ... not your opinion.
Freedom's just another word for: "Nothing left to lose" (Janis Joplin)
"There is no path to peace, peace IS the path" (Mahatma Ghandi)
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Re: Making the person disappear.

Postby jonboy » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:42 am

we should compile a complete checklist of 'things to do' in order to disappear off the 'system' :idea:
"Reason is the life of the law; nay, the common law itself is nothing else but reason. The law which is perfection of reason" Sir Edward Coke 1552-1634.

NO ONE RULES IF NO ONE OBEYS.

It is better to light one candle than to curse the darkness.
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Re: Making the person disappear.

Postby Veronica » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:12 am

That's possible, and perhaps not a bad idea.

But I think a lot will come out in the wash if we attack the fundamentals.

I know it is very tempting, having found some muscles, the temptation to use them is enormous.

I caution care, restraint ... step by careful step. Don't take on more than you can chew at any one time. I don't want to see anyone here going down in flames. Personally I would rather see us rebut things as 'they' may attempt to hit us, our families, and our friends, and anyone else who may find us.
Freedom's just another word for: "Nothing left to lose" (Janis Joplin)
"There is no path to peace, peace IS the path" (Mahatma Ghandi)
"There is no path to freedom, freedom IS the path" (Veronica Chapman)
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Re: Making the person disappear.

Postby RobbieHall » Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:43 pm

Well put, I believe that phrase is "softly, softly, catchy monkey".

Take tiny steps, then you won't pace into a big hole.
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Re: Making the person disappear.

Postby Far from the Crowd » Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:51 am

Completely agree but, I've noticed a few people, who, upon enlightenment, see their many 'chains', get the 'bolt-croppers' out and want to go severing all conections to the system without thinking through all the implications of what they're doing.
I would suggest this; Make your own plan and get 'all your ducks in a row' first before doing anything too quickly.

Where you are now took years to build so recinding every link to the system inside of a few weeks could leave you in a position you hadn't countered and that is not going to be a wise move. I'm looking at anything that serves me and what I need to do to take control of my life versus that which is irrelevant and can go immediately. Firing 'my' M.P. is a start. Breaking all the assumptions these people have of 'authority' over you or because of you is something you could address in a polite but firm letter, giving them ample time to rebutt (they won't), your written assertion.

I know a lot depends upon your individual circumstances but it can be too easy to go all 'Reggie Perrin' and end up like 'Cat Weasel' or getting 'in over your head' in consequences you didn't see coming. You haven't really achieved much by losing your income and living on someone's sofa or worse - out on the street. Step by step, you'll still get there, on your terms.
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Re: Making the person disappear.

Postby Veronica » Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:47 pm

Precisely why I cautioned care, and restraint, above.

There's a lot that can be done from the armchair. Writing the APPROPRIATE letters when attacked, dreaming up Fois and using http://www.WhatDoTheyKnow.com

Even just sending off e-mails, asking POINTED questions (not frilly questions ... such as "How much has this cost ... how much did that cost?", etc. It doesn't matter "How much it cost" ... 'money' is an illusion. What is important is to puncture the ILLUSION)
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Re: Making the person disappear.

Postby alien:nation » Mon Apr 12, 2010 2:49 am

jonboy wrote:we should compile a complete checklist of 'things to do' in order to disappear off the 'system' :idea:

perhaps we were (and still are?) suffering from a false consciouness here
don't we need a checklist of what the sytem should be doing? then we would know:
- what it is doing wrong and what steps should be taken to fix those things
- what remains of what it is doing and analysing whether those things can be improved
- what it is not doing at all that it should be and taking steps to fill those gaps
why should we do this? because the system gives us so much - or promises so much anyway. how can we get this system to realise its potential? (and by that i mean our potential.) by taking control of it. and how to do this? a couple of options present themselves:
1. writing letters and notices and creating awareness of the system - amongst who exactly? - until we control the system (progress made at glacial speed)
2. creating a political party and getting into power and controlling the system until we change the system (progress made at a multigenerational pace)
3. partaking in a (violent?) revolution and taking control of the system (progress potentially made at the expense of human life)
4. creating a community (think Waco or the hippies in Nimbin in Australia and not an on-line community) and taking into that community that system we value (progess made at the expense of things we currently value - e.g. links to ancestral homes and family memebers who do not share the same vision - and at the expense of those previously living in that community that do not value what we do and either rebel against the "new system" - perhaps violently - or leave)

i think if we ask "how we want to live as a culture and how do we get to that life?" and then work towards that end point, then whether or not the "person" disappears or not becomes inconsequential. if the "person" is needed they stay, if not, they disappear into the tomes of history.
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Re: Making the person disappear.

Postby alien:nation » Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:21 am

apologies if all i seem to be doing is asking questions. i actually want to know how we can work coherently towards a system (walk onto a ship - see last few posts on the embedded thread) where the contract is fully disclosed, the consideration is duly given and both parties are in honour
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Re: Making the person disappear.

Postby emmanualgoldstein » Mon Apr 12, 2010 5:23 am

This is starting to get a controversial subject. The mere mention of Karl Marx alone is enough to illicit contempt given the associations that have been created with him but if ever the truth were a revolutionary statement, Marx must be one of the greatest revolutionaries of all time, and never raised anything against anyone but a pen.

Look at the words from the wikipedia editor explaining POUM: "This is essentially a result of ideological control which the proletariat either do not know they are under or disregard with a view to their own probability/possibility of upward mobility".

We see this in our people frequently. They wish to adore the system because they beleive they will fair well within it.

While there are many people we can awaken: If they will not be misled by "those who would rather everyone just stayed asleep", we must take account of those, who, having an interest in their own material gains from having the system as it stands, or at least their belief in such, will do all they can to resist us, even if it means doing so with a casual disregard for justice in the confidence of their own strength of arms.

Let me put the last sentence into shorter sentences for it is complex:
- There are many people we can awaken.
- There are people who wish that everyone would stay asleep.
- Those who want us to be asleep do so because they believe, or because in actuality, they have a material gain to be had from the system as it exists now.
- Current practice would indicate that they are quite happy to disregard justice in favour of their strength of arms.

To maintain confidence amongst ourselves we must assure ourselves that those who disregard justice, even if they call their injustice "law", shall not continue in their injustice indefinitely. Bluntly we must conquer the odds that the injust will escape justice. What is the good of showing everryone the injustice committed against them, if our end is to discover that there is no hope of such injustice ending?

It is clear that violent revolution need not cost human life because we can see how violence is itself used against us simply by its threat. Let the person who says turn the other cheek allow me to punch them and punch them again until they are dead or show some great tactic which will defend the people against such violence. Certainly lets not rush to escalate this war that is already conducted against us, but lets not promote that we should stand up without our armour when the arrows become more than written threats.

Today we face forced labour in a manner so obfuscated yet undeniably true, they move now to steal our children and any aspiration of self-determination we ever had. Tommorow they have plans for the acceptance of euthanasia and surveillance that will make the mass surveilance program look like a walk in the park. If the letter tennis should fail, we should have ourselves a contingency.
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