It's important to be exacting... If i was trying to hail a cab (as part of YOUR stated scenario)...
Yes it is important to be exacting. If you are going to quote me then actually QUOTE me. Changing things to suit yourself merely causes me to suspect your motives for posting and loose respect for you. What I posted was:
Scenario. I'm a copper, I've been watching you loitering on the pavement for the past 10mins (waiting for a taxi, but I dont know this).
Not trying to hail a taxi, but waiting for a taxi. If John had been attempting to hail cabs he would not have been seen as loitering. "Waiting for a taxi" implies there is one on the way and could easily be mistaken for loitering. We don't know the location, we don't know the time of day or night we don't know if there are witnesses.
Now i don't know 'bout you, but i only unhand bag once seated - and if i didn't want it searched it would be welded to my hand until all hope was lost. As i was fingering my 'guardian angel' with the other hand i think it fair to say both hands were full.
We don't know if the bag was being held, or slung over a shoulder, or on the ground.
As we don't know any of the aforementioned things we can't use them as facts. End of story.
Most of the rest of your post is about arguments that would be raised in a court. You are failing to put yourself in Sweeney's shoes. From his perspective he did nothing wrong. Which is why John ended up being tasered. All those points you raise about joinder, consent bla bla bla. Sweeney couldn't give a crap.
Jurisdiction doesn't 'mean'control, it engenders it. Jurisdiction is better defined as 'the right' or 'the correct authority'
No. I provided you with the definition I was using for the meaning of jurisdiction. It was not a point for debate it was a point of clarification. "Jurisdiction", as I used it, means control.
Sweety had NO control whatsoever of the situation. If he had he would have gained consent, joinder, jurisdiction, personal details and the usual boost to his fully-in-control ego. Instead he got nothing but a massive headache.
Your definition of control and mine must be vastly different. He arrested John by tasering him. That's control. There is nothing to indicate he got massive headache, though John may well have. "Arrest" means "stop" - clarification, not for debate.
Whatever Sweety THINKS, what he KNOWS is procedure. Even the dumbest examples of the 'toys in glue' know they HAVE to get joinder ('name', address and d.o.b. - the perfect trifecta).
Not for a stop and search. Check for yourself, you will discover you are wrong.
You say you pay attention, yet neither Sweety nor your good self stopped to wonder why john-james asked 'Who is Mr James?' - TWICE! Hence, 'reasonable presumption' - rebutted!
Wow, now you know what goes on in my head? Impressive. Why do you think Sweeney referred to John as "Mr" twice? Reasonable presumption was in no way rebutted, does John even know what was being presumed? More mind reading perhaps?
i trust i'm demonstrating a reasonable grasp on the concept of 'presumption' now?
Nope.
Actually, his full 'agent' name IS Mr John James Doe, and it's the Mr Doe bit in particular that enslaves you to the Crown. It is both a name AND a job title.
Incorrect and you contradicted yourself. Either the full 'agent' name IS Mr John James Doe OR it (Mr John James Doe) is both a name AND a job title. It can't be both now can it? So which is it? Both answers are wrong anyway.
Your 'family' name was forced upon your ancestors but remained copyright property of the Crown. It's another legal fiction and your 'assumption' of it makes you (in the eyes of commerce and officialdom) an 'agent of the Crown' responsible for the collection (from yourself) of any dues the Crown deems necessary from the person/agent for the Estate of (in this example) MR JOHN JAMES DOE.
And you believe this to be true because?
Can you provide an example of a government form which requires a family name? There are plenty of online forms - a link will do.
The UK government and corporations require surnames NOT family names. Here is an example:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/359928/V10_220714.pdfLook around you can probably find many more.
Do you still believe everything you wrote in that last quote is true?
I have nothing further to add to this thread.