Earwig-o! Earwig-o! Earwig-o!

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Re: Earwig-o! Earwig-o! Earwig-o!

Postby Jim » Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:39 pm

I'm inclined to agree to an extent. The fact that people have to pay to attend A4V seminars is surely a sign that it doesn't really work. If it did then the organisers would just accept for value all the costs incurred in running the seminar and discharge them. However, the Treasury Direct link that you posted states that the federal government "somehow" went bankrupt. Bankruptcy doesn't just "happen" surely? It then goes on to state that "the government then convernted the bodies of its citizens into capital value". Surely those citizens must then have a some sort of claim to a single share in the "wealth" of their nation? So, I agree with you that A4V is (currently) a red herring but a scam? I don't know. Maybe with a bit of work it could be the redemption that a lot of people seem to be so desperately seeking. Personally, I'd just be happy to have a little fishing boat and some decent weather and to be LEFT THE FUCK ALONE.

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Re: Earwig-o! Earwig-o! Earwig-o!

Postby gepisar » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:13 am



I read all the links above, one site isnt sure and is inconclusive, and another hasnt even described the process correctly, the case of Elvick was doomed from the start because he wasnt following what I recognise as the correct A4v. Indeed the bond IS NOT a transferable instrument! Thanks for the links, but for me, they don't add evidence either way. Oh and the Sight Drafts are obviously not the way to do A4V. I think someone has got carried away there!

Seems there are people that CLAIM to have done this. Some i might even call friends. BUT they only started doing it (UK) a month ago. Im keeping an eye on it, but I think for the admin to work through, or for them to end up in jail will take a few months! I will of course visit them either in Bahamas or Parkhurst... :wink:

JB, Have you watched Winston Shrout's Commercial Redemption series? Whats your take on it?
Appreciated.
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Re: Earwig-o! Earwig-o! Earwig-o!

Postby free_spirit » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:52 am

The trust/bond doesnt exist. YOU have to create it. My understanding so far is thus:

1. Capture your birth certificate/certified copy
2. "Accept it for value"
3. Assign a tracking number to that surety
4. Lodge the security with HM Treasury and give instructions as to what you would like them to do with it.
5. Protect the surety by putting a lein on it (UCC forms)[/quote]

I've been trying to put this together, how do you attach a tracking number, can you use a recorded delivery mail
sticker, these are unique numbers within the postal service. We all know the value of using the royal mail.

Methinks this discussion may have wandered off topic a little?
WAKE UP PEOPLE OR ELSE ON YOUR DEATH BED YOU WILL BE THINKING, WHAT THE F**K WAS ALL THAT ABOUT
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Re: Earwig-o! Earwig-o! Earwig-o!

Postby jargon buster » Sat Sep 19, 2009 8:59 am

http://www.pnnac.org/secure/forum/read.php?12,647
Heres a link to his full videos if anyone wants to save themselves £500

If Mr Shrouts theories worked he wouldnt be charging large sums to attend his seminars.

We doesnt someone A4V his ticket charge and see what he says

Regards JB

By the way would anyone in their right mind think it was acceptable to go to a nice little family restraunt and eat a meal and then A4V the bill???
Why is it then justifiable to do it for any other bill?
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Re: Earwig-o! Earwig-o! Earwig-o!

Postby free_spirit » Sat Sep 19, 2009 9:27 am

[

By the way would anyone in their right mind think it was acceptable to go to a nice little family restraunt and eat a meal and then A4V the bill???
Why is it then justifiable to do it for any other bill?[/quote]

Thanks JB

My understanding is A4V is only effective in the public side (money of account/accrual). Money of exchange should never be brought in to accounting
on the public side. The restaurant would be accounting on the private side therefor money of exchange is appropriate (fiat)

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WAKE UP PEOPLE OR ELSE ON YOUR DEATH BED YOU WILL BE THINKING, WHAT THE F**K WAS ALL THAT ABOUT
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Re: Earwig-o! Earwig-o! Earwig-o!

Postby jargon buster » Sat Sep 19, 2009 1:48 pm

frre spirit wrote
My understanding is A4V is only effective in the public side (money of account/accrual).

Thats convienient isnt it only applies to the "faceless" side of the monetary system.

By the way how many people do you think are involved in the processing of A4V accounts?

And which department do you think deals with it?

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Re: Earwig-o! Earwig-o! Earwig-o!

Postby gepisar » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:36 pm

Ok, lets have a crack at this. This might be long and I dont promise its the TRUTH its my understanding.

Definitions:

"Order" means a written instruction to pay money signed by the person giving the instruction. The instruction may be addressed to any person, including the person giving the instruction, or to one or more persons jointly or in the alternative but not in succession. An authorization to pay is not an order unless the person authorized to pay is also instructed to pay.

Axiom:

He who creates liability must provide remedy.

Easy example:

You go to a restaurant. The waiter ASKS YOU what you'd like, you tell him (order if you like, BUT not a commercial order - theres the difference) and he brings it. Nice.
Why should you pay? (Throw away your morality here and view this in strict commercial eyes) There has to be a commercial reason (bound by contract?) for you to undertake a commercial operation.
No ones asked you to pay.

You ask for the BILL. The waiter creates a liability, the remedy is brought, you are presented with the remedy. By accepting the BILL and signing it, youve just created currency. (NOT fiat currency mind you)
So you have paid. In theory the waiter now has your signature on a bit of paper, a promissory note, that he could use as currency. But typically he doesnt know that and wants fiat currency.

(ORDER->BILL->CHARGE)

Lets try this one:

I jokingly told a friend a few weeks ago: If HM treasury is responsible (with BoE) for releasing currency into the market place, and HMRC responsible for collecting back in in taxes and VAT etc... why dont I instruct HM Treasury to send direct to HMRC the amount I've incurred and cut me, the middle man, out. I laughed. I realise now, this is exactly what we're doing with A4V.

The mechanics of doing this require that I keep a double entry system of accounting and if ive done it right my balance sheet will read ZERO.
i.e. where I create liability, i must bring remedy to the same "amount".

I create a liability; i need to zero the account. How? I could create currency. If I pay with fiat currency, im just shifting the liability else where...to my bank account via my wallet.
Two ways of looking at this now:

1. If my bank account is negative, Ive added to (my liability)
2. If my bank account is positive, Ive reduced my asset (strictly speaking it is not an asset)

IF no.1, I need to settle that liability: I go to work, my employer compensates my labour, i settle at the bank.
IF no2. I've pre-paid, I presumably at some time previous had my employer compensate my labour as deposit that in my bank.

(Ask yourself where my employer got his money from - those accounts too require balancing)

Now, Winston does cover this next bit.

When you're presented with say your concil tax bill, they send you a check (coupon) on the bottom to tear off and send back (remedy). If you endorse the back, and accept it for value, youve created a transferable instrument AND settled the account. So the value of the transferable instrument, with your signature endorsing it, creates the currency to the value of stated amount. So to balance the books, when you send this document back, they should send you the balance. (Everything needs to be zero'd) However, when you receive that balance back (as a cheque) you should send this, endorsed, to the council tax office. It aint "yours".

Its just accounting.

With accepting for value, YOU might know which liability you're settling, but Treasury dont! So you need to tell treasury so they can do accounting appropriately and charge an account with an amount equal to your liabilities. They dont care how much, just so long as they balance it. SO, you help them out. You create your own account at the treasury. How? You make a deposit!!! Yup the good ole birth certificate! This account needs to charging up, so you accept you birth certificate for value, (create currency of an unspecified amount) - which as you will appreciate, requires protection (you've just deposited a signed blank cheque in effect)
SO, you put a lein on the account to say you have first dibs on that asset. You claim as creditor, the fist 100million. How? UCC FORMS!!!

So, when you write A4V on something and sign it, treasury needs to be sure it came from you, so that they can knowingly charge your account, knowing that it really was you and not just some other joe bloggs. This is where the red thumb comes in!

Does this help? Let me know where ive gone wrong!?

Thanks
Is this still "on-topic"? Maybe should move to A4V?
Last edited by gepisar on Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Earwig-o! Earwig-o! Earwig-o!

Postby jargon buster » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:58 pm

Good post gepisar
However it all rests on the theory of the bond being a fact.(I dont think it is by the way)

You first need to prove the bond exists and as yet its still unproven.

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Re: Earwig-o! Earwig-o! Earwig-o!

Postby gepisar » Sat Sep 19, 2009 5:13 pm

JB,

Youre right. The bond does NOT exists. YOU have to create it.

Anyone can write a bond. You just need bond paper, fancy graphics, and the right words on it, but it MUST be backed by a SURETY...the b/c.

Im going to do this. Im fed up with yes/nos/maybes. Someone gotta find out foshaw! Promise to come visit me in Holloway!
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"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value - Zero" - Voltaire 1729
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Re: Earwig-o! Earwig-o! Earwig-o!

Postby jargon buster » Sat Sep 19, 2009 7:38 pm

Good luck with that gepisar

Holloway is a bit of a drive for me

Regards JB
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