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Driving Licence Renewals

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:56 pm
by Veronica
So I get an e-mail containing this:

Subject: Your Driving Licence!



Your Driving Licence - Beware Please pass on to all friends/colleagues.

Unwitting motorists face £1,000 fines as thousands of photo card driving licences expire.
Thousands of motorists are at risk of being fined up to £1,000 because they are unwittingly driving without a valid licence.

They risk prosecution after failing to spot the extremely small print on their photo card licence which says it automatically expires after 10 years and has to be renewed - even though drivers are licensed to drive until the age of 70.
The fiasco has come to light a decade after the first batch of photo licences was issued in July 1998, just as the they start to expire.
Motoring organisations blamed the Government for the fiasco and said 'most' drivers believed their licences were for life.
A mock-up driving licence from 1998 when the photo cards were launched shows the imminent expiry date as item '4b'
They said officials had failed to publicise sufficiently the fact that new-style licences - unlike the old paper ones - expire after a set period and have to be renewed.
To rub salt into wounds, drivers will have to a pay £17.50 to renew their card - a charge which critics have condemned as a 'stealth tax' and which will earn the Treasury an estimated £437million over 25 years..
Official DVLA figures reveal that while 16,136 expired this summer, so far only 11,566 drivers have renewed, leaving 4,570 outstanding.

With another 300,000 photo card licences due to expire over the coming year, experts fear the number of invalid licences will soar, putting thousands more drivers in breach of the law and at risk of a fine.
At the heart of the confusion is the small print on the tiny credit-card-size photo licence, which is used in conjunction with the paper version.

Just below the driver name on the front of the photo card licence is a series of dates and details - each one numbered..

Number 4b features a date in tiny writing, but no explicit explanation as to what it means. The date's significance is only explained if the driver turns over the card and reads the key on the back which states that '4b' means 'licence valid to'.

Even more confusingly, an adjacent table on the rear of the card sets out how long the driver is registered to hold a licence - that is until his or her 70th birthday.

A total of 25million new-style licences have been issued but - motoring experts say - drivers were never sufficiently warned they would expire after 10 years.

Motorists who fail to renew their licences in time are allowed to continue driving, but the DVLA says they could be charged with 'failing to surrender their licence', an offence carrying a £1,000 fine.

AA president, Edmund King said: 'It is not generally known that photo card licences expire: there appears to be a lack of information that people will have to renew these licences.

'People think they have already paid them for once over and that is it.

'It will come as a surprise to motorists and a shock that they have to pay an extra £17.50.'

The AA called on the Government to use the annual £450million from traffic enforcement fines to offset the renewal charge.


Oh ... the hysteria! Oh ... the woe! Oh ... the gnashing of teeth! Oh ... shall I cut my throat now, or wait till after dinner?

What a load of utter CRAP!

1) Do the DVLA not warn you every year when your Road Tax runs out? I think they might - just - warn you when your so-called Driving Licence runs out. Doncha think?

2) So bloody what? A Drtving Licence is irrelevant!

So I thought I'd post AN appropriate rebuttal (see what you think):

In care of:
Address (less PostCode)
Near: [PostCode]

February 26th, 2009

Re: <DVLA Reference (Driving Licence No)>, dated <The date of their letter>.

Notice of Request for Clarification.

Their full address

Dear Sirs,

Thank you for your letter of <the date of their letter>.

Under Common Law, as I understand it, I have the unrestricted Right to travel in a conveyance of my choice.

I understand the need to be able to control such a conveyance, and successfully passed a test of competence circa 1960 (autocycles) and circa 1967 (automobiles).

Nothing can be capable of being licenced unless it is a fundamentally lawful action. In consequence a licence to operate an autocycle or automobile conveyance on the public highway (provided one is not engaged in commerce thereupon) seems to be unnecessary, under Common Law - which is the law-of-the-land, and I would be travelling on land.

Would you please be so kind as to tell me which Common Law obliges My Human Self to obtain a licence in order to perform these fundamentally lawful actions?

'Licencing' consists, fundamentally, of 'asking permission'. Only a child 'asks for permission', and I am not a child. And, since I am an adult capable of empowering those from whom you derive any 'authority' to act, any such 'authority' as you may posses must have come from My Self (and all adults like My Self) in the first place. Ergo you need to ask MY or OUR PERMISSION, not the other way round. (By the way, I withhold MY PERMISSION)

I look forward to hearing from you with fourteen days clarifying this position, pointing out that failure to do so completely and in good faith will be deemed by all parties that a 'licence to drive' is not necessary for travelling in one's own private conveyance on the public highway.

Sincerely and without ill will, vexation or frivolity,

Veronica: of the Chapman family
WITHOUT PREJUDICE, i.e. all Natural Inalienable Rights Reserved

Please address all future correspondence in the matter to a direct Human Self, namely Veronica: of the Chapman family, as commonly called.

Encl: Original paperwork as received.

I told them. Not that they'll take any notice. They'll be too busy having hysterics.

They reply within fourteen days

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:01 pm
by Veronica
Oh, yes. You can expect them quoting the Road Traffic Acts.

So, what do we do?


Follow-up response ...

blah ... blah ... Road Traffic Acts are Statutes.

Statutes are the legislated rules of a Society.

For something to exist in law it must have a NAME.

1. Proof of claim that the Road Traffic Acts are the legislated rules of a Named Society, including the NAME of that Society.

2. Proof of claim that I am a Member of that Society whose subsisting rules & regulations encompass the Road Traffic Acts.

... blah ... blah.

Re: Driving Licence Renewals

PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2009 5:14 pm
by Veronica
Actually my own licence expires in 2010.

So ... don't worry ... I'll probably be the first to find out.

I certainly have no intention of renewing it. Only a child 'asks permission', and I'm not a child.

Re: Driving Licence Renewals

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:02 am
by Highspirit
Whooohooo way to go Veronica. What a scam they are running here. The government apart from the banksters of course are the biggest scam(ini)sters around, and so many people fall for their scams. They should appear on SCAM.COM for their unlawful actions. In fact, Im sure they will soon enough. The government should carry a government wealth warning. WARNING, THESE SCAM(INI)STERS WILL SEVERLY DAMAGE YOUR WEALTH!!
It makes me so angry when I see how the apathy of the masses just lays down and takes this rubbish. Well, not for much longer I am sure.


Re: Driving Licence Renewals

PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:12 am
by Veronica

Oh ... a bit more ...

3. Proof of claim that I have not, anyway, resigned any Membership of any Society you can NAME. Would you like to see my resignation? I have it here. It is called a Notice of Understanding and Intent and a Claim of Right. Would you like this entered into evidence?

Remain calm. Remain composed. Remain implacable. Stand your ground. Stand in your square.

Let them hold you for their 42 poxy days if they want. Answer all questions thus: "I respectfully decline to answer that question".

(Try not to laugh at them - as they play Good Cop, Bad Cop - knowing full well they would charge you if they had anything to go on. And what they want is for you to give them something to go on. Knowing full well that - if they charge you with anything - they'll have to take you to Court, and you can easily challenge 'jurisdiction'.

Here's a really good one "Who is the prisoner here? In a few days time you will have to release me. But you will still be stuck here. Apart from that I respectfully decline to answer any of your questions.")

Do we have the Right to do this? YES WE DO!

Yesterday, in black & white, HM Treasury admitted that 'money has no value'.

Consequently stealing it is pointless.

Consequently prosecuting someone for stealing it is pointless.

Consequently any fine in any sum of money 'imposed' by any Court has 'no value', and is - therefore - pointless.

Merely academic exercises. HM Treasury has said so, in so many words.

And, therefore, these things always were ... pointless. Because 'money' was only ever an 'idea'. And never anything more. A 'promise to pay which could never be fulfilled'. And empty promise. 'Legal tender' is an empty promise. It actually says so on every banknote.

Could we use this as a mantra?

I think we could, and I think we should.

It works this way.

Dear Sirs,

... blah ...blah ... blah

On 26th February, 2009, HM Treasury admitted - in an answer to a Freedom of Information request - that 'money has no value'. Consequently you are demanding nothing of value. Which is, of course, utterly pointless. Would you, therefore, like to re-consider your pointless demands on the legal fiction person X Y? Or, at the very least, explain its point?

Yours sincerely without frivolity, il-will, or vexation,

X: of the Y family
Without prejudice, i.e. all Natural Rights reserved.

Do we have the right to say that, based on what they said?

Yes we do. The truth was suggested in the FoI request. This was NOT denied. In point of fact it was alluded, in their answer, to have some merit.

So, there is a reasonable 'psychology' to utilise anyway. Even if it is not the truth (it MUST be the truth, because there is no other way), we are still swamped in 'games of psychology' on a daily (even hourly) basis. So, what stops us turning their psychology back on them? Nothing.

Re: Driving Licence Renewals

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:14 pm
by jonboy
I am assuming that the driving licence (and application form) forms the basis of the contract, to which the driver is bound to obey the rules of the road traffic act, therefore simply by allowing the licence to expire, the contract also expires, and the motorist is no longer part of the 'DVLA society', and thus bound by the legislated rules of the society.
I have been journeying in a van since january now with no tax or insurance, and as everyday goes by I feel more and more confident, I have asked the DVLA, by way of a FOI request, how to de-register my car, to which they have so far failed to even acknowledge, let alone answer accordingly. They have until march 13. Once this has been answered one way or another, I am going to grind off the chassis numbers, change the plates to foreign ones, and park the car well away from my home. The same applies to my van. I am also considering handing in my driving licence before it expires. ;)

Re: Driving Licence Renewals

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:22 pm
by Veronica
Hi jonboy,

Well done! I'm sure you are - basically - correct, and I know about your FoI which has not been answered as I write this. ... y_own_auto

And I'm on to them as well, with this: ... ed_conveya
(All explained in my latest Annotation to that FoI)

I'm not too sure about the effectiveness of 'handing things back'. A (correctly written) NOUCOR is, effectively, a 'resignation' from everything. Even if it can be shown that you WERE a Member of any Society, a RESIGNATION is all that is ever necessary so as to remove yourself from it.

This is why I'm thinking more an more about establishing my NOUCOR. (Which reminds me!)

Re: Driving Licence Renewals

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:55 pm
by jonboy
I think a DVLA specific Notice of understanding and claim of right might be in order. One that highlights our understanding of the difference between 'driving' and 'journeying', 'passenger' and guest', 'registered road vehicle' and 'private conveyance' (or 'automated riding carriage')

Re: Driving Licence Renewals

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:14 pm
by Veronica
I must admit mine doesn't really highlight that. It just says (basically) '"I reject all claims upon me".

However, your suggestion is good. Put something together, and we'll discuss it. My final 'understanding' is that "there may be more of this" ... consequently stuff can be added. I think I might add a Schedule C for that purpose.

Re: Driving Licence Renewals

PostPosted: Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:43 pm
by Veronica
I saw their reply, and your rebuttal.

Nice one!