Get a mortgage, knowing what I know now...???

[IamallthatIam]

Okay. Fair enough, Let me tell you my veiws, as I understand this thing...
The word "Freedom" that you all toss around; Is meant to have a "Relative" functioning...
B/C anyone that works, to live, is not a freeman, he's a slave...if not to his employer, then to the fraudulent banking/monetary system...
to me; there's no if's ands or buts about this... You might be "As free as you can be, relative" but your still a slave. If you "Operate" in their system, at ALL. They own you. Period...Like Mary C says, "The only way to win the game is NOT PLAY!"

If the redemption of the strawman is not to free yourself from "Money" fear, so that you can now operate in LOVE, ...what's the point?

Okay , I see where you are coming from but you are missing the point.........

yes all the time people are working within the conventional system i.e. employed by an employer and working compleetly in the system for debt notes in order to survive they are indeed slaves - I totally agree - what I do not agree with is that by opting out of the corrupt system and becoming "free" we are in effect "licensed " to sit on our arses doing nothing , which is what you seem to be aiming for. You seem to be implying that to be "free" you ARE free to bit back and live off of everyone else , either expecting others to freely give and bail you out or for you to take take take and give nothing in return. That is not free , that is reliance. The whole point of being free is to do what you want , to be self reilant , self sufficient , NOT to be reliant and dependant on others for your survival and under their say so. If you dont "work" in order to provide for yourself and you are not willing to take responsibility for yourself , how are you expecting to live.

At the moment a lot of us are still in the system , that said some are "more in" than others, but we aim to get out. WE are to aiming to "stop working" , infact alot of us will be working a lot harder than we have ever done before but in different ways and we will be doing it , not for debt notes , but for us , and the comminty we build , and for the planet

Example: At the moment I run my own business, and yse to a large extent I am in the system , but i refuse to support gnocide and the warcrimes of the government so they can shove their taxes up their arse. In the long term, even thoguh I may chose not to run a shop , i may still trade because people will always need commodities , it jsut wont be done for debt notes. I will grow my own food and perhaps trade it for something you ahve got , after all you have still got to eat, what are you going to have that you can trade freely ??

Even if i decide not to trade goods , i will build my own eco low impact house that does not abuse the planet , i will need materials to do that , where do you think they will come from if you are sitting on your arse - they are not just going to fall out of the sky and land in your lap

"work" you undertake , you will do for the benefit of th e all , becase you chose to , because you can , because you are free to do so, becuase it is about giving something back as well not just taking. You will not just take out oddf selfishness just for the sake of accumulation and you will no t just take at the detriment of others , that is exactly what the "system " has always done.

Sitting on your arse doing nothing other than take take take is exactly what the ptb are doing to us now

[Zaniwhoop]

anyone that works, to live, is not a freeman, he's a slave...if not to his employer, then to the fraudulent banking/monetary system...

I agree with you up to a point here AU, but there is also work in which the reward is not money, for example building your own house from natural and discarded materials, see this topic viewtopic.php?f=40&t=322&p=16253#p16253 or just working hard at something for the good of ALL. Ah! I see Angie has pretty much said the same things there, anyway, worth repeating IMHO.

Now, infesting the planet with magic mushrooms does sound like a worthy aim, in as much as such things can be helpful in getting the crown chakra activated, though I do think that needs tempering with a bit of spiritual training, so that the consumer of such substances has some idea as to how to deal with the experience, as we are all going to have to do soon anyhow, as the yin energies on this planet increase. We don't want too many cases of the noids occurring BLLLLLUUUUEY!

As far as the mortgage thang goes, I have to agree with everyone else, that it would not be honourable to take one out with the knowledge of this material in place. However I do not see why it would not work, apart from the fact that if your circumstances or status (as they like to call these things) are/is that bad then you are probably going to have trouble getting one in the first place. I do however see your dilemma, and comprehend why you do not see it as being unethical, after all money is an illusion, and what you propose would be helping to expose things, and be helping to clog up their system. But the problem is that it would also be damaging the moral high ground that we have as Freemen, by making us look like a bunch of layabout scroungers and swindlers.

Love and Light

Simon

[HumanBeing-BeingHuman]

To me it sounds like AU is just in a transition period. He's trying to grasp these new concepts as are a lot of us (myself included) while still holding onto the tip of his old concepts. He just doesn't want to fall down taking his next step. This is understandable, change can be scary. I think the most important thing any of us could impart to AU right now is just this: If you do what you are talking about then you put yourself in the position of being morally bankrupt, the same as those who would enslave us. Honesty, not deceit. If you have prior financial issues to clear up then by all means do so! BUT! Do not engage in the same trickery that has been used against us. Two wrongs do not make one right.

If you are going to be free you have the duty of upholding Positive virtue. Not only for yourself but for each other.

[Freeman-B]

HR, 1965 and Angie - thank you, thank you, thank you - I couldn't have said it anything like as well myself.

AU you're really not getting it at all are you (although your last post is showing signs of some little promise).

Being free, as others have said (at least in the minds of a Freeman) is not about getting everything for free, it is about leaving the corruption behind and takinf FULL responsibility for yourself. This means, for example, contributing to your community in a way that is beneficial to both them and YOU using your unique skills to do so (notice that benefiting JUST you is noit likely to get you very far). In this way, you can ADD something to your community, instead of taking, and share in the bounty of other things that your community produces.

Now, did you notice something about what I said? Where was the mention of money, or banks or Government? There wasn't any - it's about YOU, your community and what you can produce for mutual benefit, in LOVE (as you correctly said!).

To try to expand on what HR in particular said (and I see there have been other responses since I started writing this, which may have already covered it) - if you HAVE a mortgage and you discover that it has been created fraudulently (as they ALL have), then getting out of it is a perfectly natural and honourable thing to do. However, if, once you KNOW that it is a fraudulent thing, then you go through the process again, then you are lying to the bank, yourself and everyone else, because you are entering into a contract that you KNOW is false, with the intention to profit personally - that is just about the definition of fraud itself. Can't you see the difference?

Perhaps this will help you. As others have said, we find ourselves in a transitional state - the community we want to be a part of is not quite our reality yet (though I'm sure it is for some) and, for the time being, money is somewhat of a necessary evil - does this get somewhere close to where you are coming from? If so, I thinkn you might find it useful to look at commercial redemption, whereby you utilise the states obligation (under the bankruptcy) for your debts, bills and presentments - until such a time as the society that will inevitably evolve out of the current debacle gradually comes into focus.

This is not the same as shafting the banks (and therefore maybe not as satisfying), but may allay your fears somewhat and give you somewhere to channel your somewhat obvious energy.

Lastly, none of us came to these conclusions overnight and there is a lot of hard work to do to get your head round these concepts. Take your time, educate yourself and implement ONLY what you FULLY understand.

If in doubt, read that last sentence again.


B

[MrFrodo]

Hi AU,

What they are trying to say is that if you have already got debtsa and then you realise its all a con and fraud then you are acting honourably in discharging such debts. But to go back and get such credit knowing its a con just to benefit yourself is not what the freeman way is about.

Technically the credit card company will not be commiting lack of full disclosure because you know the con!

That said and to be balance the discussion, the banks arestill not putting up equal consideration so technically you coulkd do it and get away with it but more to the pont from a utilitarian perspective you coulkd well be doing the wider community of peopel around you a good thing because you are taking credit and discharging it, therefore you are spending money on people around you on goods and services that will eliviate their debt and bring closer the collapse of these institutions,

BUT,

Whether you think thats really an acceptable course of action is for you to deciede.

I currecntly think you could argue it either way

Frodo

[Freeman-B]

two frauds make a fight!


B

[Matt: Speake]

HI AU,

You really are just NOT GETTING IT with the freeman concepts are you?

Whay exactly is your problem with this 'getting something for nothing' idea?? You seem to have come to the freeman idea with a 'everything handed to me on a plate','Yay free ride , free lunch',' do what the fuck I want whilst screwing all others and take take take' concept in your head and that is just sooooooo NOT what the freeman thang' is about

have you actually READ anything on this forum? Or has it just been a question of coming in here and posting in order to find out how to 'get away with' whatever it is you are doing - cos that is sure what it sounds like.

Yeah, I have read your 'story' and yes you got your arse shoved in jail for smoking dope - well whooppee do, you are not the first and you will not be the last, but does that give you the right to come in here expecting to screw people over? i dont think so !!!

IF you want to seriously consider taking the freeman route in life, you need to go away and sort your atttiude out , in my opinion, because my friend you are sounding bitter and twisted and full of revenge and that is not going to get you anywhere.

Sure what happened to you is wrong , very very wrong , but that is how the system is , it is corrupt and there to shaft you big time and does a pretty good job if you ask me. The attitude you have developed at the moment is them having got you exactly where they want you. you are playing right into their hands, it is what they want. So well done for backing them , making their lives easier and our jobs harder.

The freeman concept is about leaving their system behind , bringing it down as we go , moving on because we are all better that what they want us to be, IT is about taking responsibility for EVERYTHING we do ,clearing up our own messes NOT CREATING MORE. it is about standing up and saying NO MORE not adding to the shit we are in, IT is about acting with honour and doing what is RIGHT not just for your own greedy little ass but for each and every living being on this planet. WE are all one , we are all equal , we are all in this together. The enforced heirarchy is WRONG WRONG WRONG , there is no one bigger and better than you and you are no bigger or better than anyobne else.

You do not deserve any more than anyone else , therefore you have no right to take it. This' deserving' business is a load of bollocks , there is no 'deserving because i have worked for it , or i have done this or that. From the moment we are born the ptb have us in the mindset of if i want this i have to do that, or i can have this because i have done that. bullshit ! Everything is here on this planet in abundance there is more than enough for each and every one of us , there is no reward ssytem , or goods for the priviledged shit.

The freeman thng is not about accumulation and getting stuff for nothing , just because we can

Getting out of the shit we should never have been in, it is about exposing the fucked up shitty deciet filled system for what it is. IT is about saying we know what you have done and how you have done it , and we are not going to be a part of it anymore , it is not anout dipping your hand into a pot of gold because you want something you aint got

Freemen give freely, all that they have for the benefit of the all , we contribute with substance

What are you conributing with your , how do i get this for nothing stance? Ill tell you, not a lot !

i am getting a bit sick and tired of hearing you rant because you realised that "freeman" aint going to get you a freebie. You want freebies ? Go to McDonalds , cos freebies is not what we are about.

We are co-creators , so you want to change the life you have got ? Co-create a better way that is fair and just and right for every one and every thing. Thats what we are doing. The only way you are going to get that life is to see things from OUR point of view, the FREE MAN point of view and i menan REALLY SEE the freeman point of view. IT is not a get out clause it is a way of life. WE cannot stoop to see things from you point of view, we are never going to be able to get all our heads up your ass.

love and light
Angie x x

PS It is only a hopeless situation if you want it to be
PPS "You are only free when you think you are free" - you really need to understand that on one very deep level

Couldn't agree more, great post!

[Matt: Speake]

Okay. Fair enough, Let me tell you my veiws, as I understand this thing...
The word "Freedom" that you all toss around; Is meant to have a "Relative" functioning...
B/C anyone that works, to live, is not a freeman, he's a slave...if not to his employer, then to the fraudulent banking/monetary system...
to me; there's no if's ands or buts about this... You might be "As free as you can be, relative" but your still a slave. If you "Operate" in their system, at ALL. They own you. Period...Like Mary C says, "The only way to win the game is NOT PLAY!"

If the redemption of the strawman is not to free yourself from "Money" fear, so that you can now operate in LOVE, ...what's the point?

Working for your self is the best option; working for yourself is not being a slave as such, I grasp the fact that we are slaves to money, but fact is we need to make money to survive in the system, if we never had money we would still have to work the land etc... to survive, so being free still requires work, unfortunately though we do work for money, and the best way to do that is for yourself; and strictly cash deals only!