Contract for NI

Income Tax, Council Tax, National Insurance and VAT issues.

Contract for NI

Postby Dash » Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:59 pm

Hi guys,

One of my friends has written off to the Director of National Insurance to see if that insurance covers us in the public.
the reply has come back with a few interesting nuggets of information :clap: I cannot attach the letter something to do with the size so I will type it.

Dear xxxxxxx

Thank you for your letter dated 26 June.

You have asked wheatherr National Insurance is an insurance which covers a person for all liabilities in the public. I can confirm that this is not the case. The compulsory payment of National Insurance contributions (NICs) gives a contributor access to a specific range of benefits which are defined by law, rather than giving any general form of insurance.

I think it wil help to make the position clearer however, if I explain the National Insurance system in more detail, Including the benefits that a person may receive as a result of making contributions.

Then National Insurance scheme as we know it today began on 5 July 1948. It was a compulsory insurance scheme and all persons between school leaving age and State Pentions age were covered. This was t be achieved by people paying NIC's, which gave access to a range of benefits. Tis understanding between the State and the contributor was, asn is known as the contributory principle. The contributory principle is simply a contract between the individual and the State whereby in return for the payment of NIC's, the contributor has the expectation of being able to receive contributory benefits. The heart of the sytem is therefore simple: those who pay contributions when in work are entitled to receive certain benefits when out of work or retired.

It should be noted however, that national Insurance scheme is a social scheme rather that a personal scheme. No individual has an exclusive fund set aside for their own benefit and pension entitlement. Instead,today's earners pay NIC's to fund today's benefits and pensions.

There are currently three classes of NIC's that may entitle a contributor to receive contributory benefits. Payment of contributions is compulsory and a person can only pay contributions which they are legally entitled to pay. those types of contributions and the benefits to which they may entitle the contributor are as follows:

Class 1 contributions

Class 1 contributions are paid by people who work as employee's and have earnings above a specified limit called the earning's threshold (currently £110 per week).
Payment of Class 1 contributions may, depending on the amount of contributions paid and the years for which payment has been made, entitle a contributor to the following benefits:
Basic State Pension, State Second pension, Short term Employment and Support Allowance, Maternity Allowance, Jobseeker's Allowance, Bereavement Benefits.

Class 2 contributions

Class 2 contributions are a weekly flate-rate contribution paid by the self-employed. Payment of Class 2 contributions may, depending n the amount of contributions paid and the years for which payment has been made, entitle a contributor to the following benefits:
Basic State Pension, Short term Employment and Support Allowance, Maternity Allowance, Bereavement Benefits.

Class 3 contributions

Class 3 contributions are a weekly voluntary contributions which may be able to be paid by some people who which to protect their benefit entitlement and who do not pa enough Class 1 or Class 2 contributions. Payment of Class 3 contributions may, depending on the amount of contributions paid and the years for which payment has been made, entitle a contriutor to the following benifits:
Basic State Pention, Bereavement Benefits.

If you have any queries about specific benefits, the qualifying condition for those benefits, or your own personal benefit position, you should contact your nearest Deparment for Work and Pensions office.

I am greatful for the opportunity to clarify the situation to you.

Yours sincerely.

I have a contract for NI that I didnt know :gasp: about I would like a copy of mine so I will be writing to ask for one, also I would like to know why if I am contributing to something why I am not garenteed to get the benefits. :puzz:

I have been paying in to a contract for 13 years and I have never seen any of the benefits of that contract, I was deceived in to paying in to the contract and would like to ask for all of my contributions back. :giggle:

I did notice that NI does not cover the NHS either which was something I thought it covered. :puzz:

I will keep you all updated on any progress made with this.

Love and peace

Kerry
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Re: Contract for NI

Postby kevin » Wed Jul 22, 2009 7:12 am

excellent and very interesting....happy hunting. I have to say I dont remember seeing or signing the contract either :puzz:
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Re: Contract for NI

Postby notanumber » Sat Aug 01, 2009 5:34 am

Dash wrote:Hi guys,

One of my friends has written off to the Director of National Insurance to see if that insurance covers us in the public.
the reply has come back with a few interesting nuggets of information :clap: I cannot attach the letter something to do with the size so I will type it.

Dear xxxxxxx

Thank you for your letter dated 26 June.

You have asked wheatherr National Insurance is an insurance which covers a person for all liabilities in the public. I can confirm that this is not the case. The compulsory payment of National Insurance contributions (NICs) gives a contributor access to a specific range of benefits which are defined by law, rather than giving any general form of insurance.

I think it wil help to make the position clearer however, if I explain the National Insurance system in more detail, Including the benefits that a person may receive as a result of making contributions.

Then National Insurance scheme as we know it today began on 5 July 1948. It was a compulsory insurance scheme and all persons between school leaving age and State Pentions age were covered. This was t be achieved by people paying NIC's, which gave access to a range of benefits. Tis understanding between the State and the contributor was, asn is known as the contributory principle. The contributory principle is simply a contract between the individual and the State whereby in return for the payment of NIC's, the contributor has the expectation of being able to receive contributory benefits. The heart of the sytem is therefore simple: those who pay contributions when in work are entitled to receive certain benefits when out of work or retired.

It should be noted however, that national Insurance scheme is a social scheme rather that a personal scheme. No individual has an exclusive fund set aside for their own benefit and pension entitlement. Instead,today's earners pay NIC's to fund today's benefits and pensions.

There are currently three classes of NIC's that may entitle a contributor to receive contributory benefits. Payment of contributions is compulsory and a person can only pay contributions which they are legally entitled to pay. those types of contributions and the benefits to which they may entitle the contributor are as follows:

Class 1 contributions

Class 1 contributions are paid by people who work as employee's and have earnings above a specified limit called the earning's threshold (currently £110 per week).
Payment of Class 1 contributions may, depending on the amount of contributions paid and the years for which payment has been made, entitle a contributor to the following benefits:
Basic State Pension, State Second pension, Short term Employment and Support Allowance, Maternity Allowance, Jobseeker's Allowance, Bereavement Benefits.

Class 2 contributions

Class 2 contributions are a weekly flate-rate contribution paid by the self-employed. Payment of Class 2 contributions may, depending n the amount of contributions paid and the years for which payment has been made, entitle a contributor to the following benefits:
Basic State Pension, Short term Employment and Support Allowance, Maternity Allowance, Bereavement Benefits.

Class 3 contributions

Class 3 contributions are a weekly voluntary contributions which may be able to be paid by some people who which to protect their benefit entitlement and who do not pa enough Class 1 or Class 2 contributions. Payment of Class 3 contributions may, depending on the amount of contributions paid and the years for which payment has been made, entitle a contriutor to the following benifits:
Basic State Pention, Bereavement Benefits.

If you have any queries about specific benefits, the qualifying condition for those benefits, or your own personal benefit position, you should contact your nearest Deparment for Work and Pensions office.

I am greatful for the opportunity to clarify the situation to you.

Yours sincerely.

I have a contract for NI that I didnt know :gasp: about I would like a copy of mine so I will be writing to ask for one, also I would like to know why if I am contributing to something why I am not garenteed to get the benefits. :puzz:

I have been paying in to a contract for 13 years and I have never seen any of the benefits of that contract, I was deceived in to paying in to the contract and would like to ask for all of my contributions back. :giggle:

I did notice that NI does not cover the NHS either which was something I thought it covered. :puzz:

I will keep you all updated on any progress made with this.

Love and peace

Kerry


thank you for those nuggets of information, i have just recieved a tax return form requesting me to fill it in, but from that letter you have, i notice it says, ''It was a compulsory insurance scheme and all persons between school leaving age and State Pentions age were covered.

Im very new to the fmolt, and trying to gather as much info as possible in super quick time, do you know if the word 'compulsory' means something diffrent in the legalese language? Not that it should make any diffrence as i am not a person anyway. But its useful to know. i am prepared to pay all my medical bills when i need medical treatment etc, when i exclude myself from paying this income tax.

As a sidenote, i have been 'informed' that there is a NIC class4, which i am being herded into, and being cojoeled into accepting atm. Hence the reason for my sudden quest to get as much info as possible into this subject.

I also have misunderstood/been fooled into believing that NI covers NHS 'treatment'.

i think its time for me to politely decline the offer of paying Income tax on earnings, in return for a basic state pension, jobseekers allowence etc.

peace.
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Re: Contract for NI

Postby BaldBeardyDude » Sat Aug 01, 2009 8:53 am

Notanumber

A few things to think about

1) You do not have to pay for medical costs, as they are not coming out of NI, so should you stop NI, you can still get medical treatment on the NHS.

2) Many foreigners do get treatment here for free (their gov NOT paying us) so you would be no different.

3) According to contractual law (maritime/civil/law-of-the-waters/sea), no-one can be forced to contract, without that contract being voided at the time, so I do not see how we can have a compulsory contract with the gov.

You might want to research the points to better your understanding/comprehension on them. One of the best sources being V's book, as we know. We also have partly transcribed Professor Wahalley's CD's on contractual law, made to help his law students. These are both on the site.

Personally, I would not get too tied up with the legalese la-la jargon, but if you feel the need - as we all did - then you may find this useful - http://www.blacks.worldfreemansociety.org/top.htm

Hope it helps you, my friend

Baldy (Pete)
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Re: Contract for NI

Postby Dash » Sat Aug 01, 2009 1:50 pm

Hi guys,

I have also written off to HMRC to ask who has to pay income tax and what law it relates to, the letter was send 15th July as soon as I get a reply I will post the info.
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Re: Contract for NI

Postby notanumber » Sat Aug 01, 2009 2:51 pm

BaldBeardyDude wrote:Notanumber

A few things to think about

1) You do not have to pay for medical costs, as they are not coming out of NI, so should you stop NI, you can still get medical treatment on the NHS.

2) Many foreigners do get treatment here for free (their gov NOT paying us) so you would be no different.

3) According to contractual law (maritime/civil/law-of-the-waters/sea), no-one can be forced to contract, without that contract being voided at the time, so I do not see how we can have a compulsory contract with the gov.

You might want to research the points to better your understanding/comprehension on them. One of the best sources being V's book, as we know. We also have partly transcribed Professor Wahalley's CD's on contractual law, made to help his law students. These are both on the site.

Personally, I would not get too tied up with the legalese la-la jargon, but if you feel the need - as we all did - then you may find this useful - http://www.blacks.worldfreemansociety.org/top.htm

Hope it helps you, my friend

Baldy (Pete)


BaldBeardyDude.

Thanks for those pointers Baldy, it seems there are a few routes i can take reg this, i can just ignore the forms sent, as they have got my first intial wrong, so rather than pointing this out to them, the next time they send me something, i can just write on, return to sender, incorrectly addressed. This will buy me some much needed valuable research time.

Then after/if they find out what my correct initial is, i can press them on paying income tax on earnings, and also in my situation, my earnings are from internet poker, so, profit from 'gambling' is supposed to be non taxable anyway under statute, i have recieved 4 diffrent answers from 4 different people so far by telephone. this is where the class 4 NI bracket has appeared from, (if your only income is from 'gambling' then that is taxable is their latest effort to get me to contract.)

I need to keep reading v's book and have a look at Prof wahalley's work to know how to decline the contract correctly, so thanks again for that.

regards

notanumber (Mike)
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Re: Contract for NI

Postby Farmer » Sat Aug 01, 2009 7:12 pm

You may find that the inland revenue have been given the power to decide what is income and what isn't.
If you're scared of 'them' poisoning 'us' with some shit then maybe you haven't noticed the shit they are already poisoning us with.
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Re: Contract for NI

Postby BaldBeardyDude » Sat Aug 01, 2009 9:43 pm

Farmer wrote:You may find that the inland revenue have been given the power to decide what is income and what isn't.


Farmer's right again :mrgreen: - I did an FOI on this and the results were less than helpful. I asked from the standpoint of being a business, so why can I not subtract my overheads from my wages, then pay tax on the 'profit' - the remainder after costs are taken out.

Got a load of tosh back, but the upshot is, for us at least, ALL money we GET is classed as INCOME, save for the expetions, like gambling of some sorts, etc.

Baldy
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Re: Contract for NI

Postby Farmer » Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:10 pm

What they tend to do is say that if you don't have a regular job, then the other source of money is income. For example, investments that would have been seen as capital gain would suddenly be income.
If you're scared of 'them' poisoning 'us' with some shit then maybe you haven't noticed the shit they are already poisoning us with.
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Re: Contract for NI

Postby huntingross » Sun Aug 02, 2009 9:27 am

In my FOI, I found them to be equally unhelpful, but he did agree without really conceding that he had, that tax isn't possible under common law as there are no income tax laws.
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