Discharging Student Loans

Re: Discharging Student Loans

Postby Rustingle » Tue May 24, 2011 9:26 pm

Hello all,

I got a response from the Student Loan Company in the form of a statement showing the balance I 'owe'. I will be sending them a Subject Access Request in the following format in the morning:

My Mr. Name
My Address
11 Carnigie Rd
Glasgow
G52 4JS

Dear Sir/Madam Data Protection Controller

Reference: ART ID xxxxxxxxxxx

Please supply me with all data that you hold on me. This includes in particular, but is not limited to, the following:-

1. The original signed, executed credit agreement/s and any terms and conditions that applied to the account/s at the time of default and at the time the account/s was/were opened.

2. Where there has been any event in my account history over this period which has required manual intervention by any person, I require disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention in relation to my account formerly held with ORIGINAL CREDITOR. - delete or add this depending on whether you are sending this to the original creditor/or a debt collection agency

3. True copies of any notice of assignment and default notices or enforcement notice that you/or name of the original creditor sent me, with a copy of any proof of postage that you hold.

4. Documents relating to any insurance added to the account/s, including the insurance contract and terms and conditions, date/s they were/ it was added and deleted. (if applicable).

5. Details of any collection charges added to the account/s; specifically, the date they were/it was levied, the amount of the charge, a detailed financial breakdown of how the charge was/charges were calculated, and what the charge covers/charges cover.

6. Specific details of the fees/charges levied by any other agency in respect of this account/these accounts and a detailed breakdown of said fees/charges and what each charge relates to and on what date said fees/charges were levied.

7. A genuine copy of any notice of fair use of my data as required by the Data Protection Act 1998

8. A list of third party agencies to whom you have disclosed my personal data and a summary of the nature of the information you have disclosed.

9. Copies of statements for the entire duration of the credit agreement/s.

10.Termination notices

PLEASE NOTE that unless otherwise stated by yourselves and if the above documents are NOT provided, it will be CONFIRMED that you are unable to reproduce/provide in any way shape or form any copies of the above requested documents. You are reminded that you have a duty to inform me if you do not have the above documents. This is confirmed in High Court Law - Ezsias v Welsh Ministers - [2007] All ER (D) 65 (Dec)

You are reminded that you are obliged to supply all the above documents in line with the Information Commissioners Technical Guidance update (Dated August 2007)

I enclose the statutory maximum fee of £10. You have 40 days in which to comply.
If there is specific information which you require in order to satisfy yourself as to my identity, please let me know by return. However, please note that the above address is the one which you normally use to communicate my private business to me and which you have hitherto found to be acceptable.

Yours faithfully,

(signature)

My Mr. Name


I will be using a postal order for the amount of £10 and placing crosses through my signature to ensure it cannot be ‘lifted’.
Lets see how it goes. Following this I will then proceed to challenge them using a standard technique, though with this information gained it will hopefully give me a better chance of pulling it off easier.

Will keep you updated.

Rusty
Rustingle
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 8:57 pm

Re: Discharging Student Loans

Postby rebelwithoutaclue » Wed May 25, 2011 9:12 am

Hey rusty seems like your just round the corner from me.
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.”
rebelwithoutaclue
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 6:36 am
Location: Glasgow

Re: Discharging Student Loans

Postby Rustingle » Wed May 25, 2011 10:37 am

A friend of mine has had success with discharging a student loan using this method, though it was only of £2000. Mine is significantly higher that that though I believe I will have success and be able to give a complete overview of the process so that others can use it as a case study for challenging their student debts.

Rusty
Rustingle
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 8:57 pm

Re: Discharging Student Loans

Postby rebelwithoutaclue » Wed May 25, 2011 11:25 am

Please keep us updated. Got a small student loan of my own that needs sorting. Are you on cardonald rusti?
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.”
rebelwithoutaclue
 
Posts: 211
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 6:36 am
Location: Glasgow

Re: Discharging Student Loans

Postby klogger » Wed May 25, 2011 11:49 am

Rustingle wrote:1. The original signed, executed credit agreement/s and any terms and conditions that applied to the account/s at the time of default and at the time the account/s was/were opened.


I would have thought that they would never provide you with the original, as that would mean they no longer hold it, and therefore can not collect on it as you would then be the holder of the your own debt. You may be able to ask for a copy or to go and see the original at one of their offices. I can't see any way that you can discharge it without getting them to show the original to a judge as proof that they are the holder of the debt. You could let them know that they would be required to show the original in court, they may back of then and discharge it in the knowledge that they can't win (assuming that they don't hold the original). If they do show it in court then you would need to verify it as the original. That may require a computer and a microscope to look for signs that the document signature is printed and not signed by a pen. I would look for a dotted image from a printer rather than a fluid flow of ink from a pen, but I am not sure how good laser printers are, so you may not be able to distinguish easily.

Good luck though, and keep us informed if you have either success or failure - any information is useful.
klogger
 
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 11:44 am

Re: Discharging Student Loans

Postby Rustingle » Thu May 26, 2011 2:58 pm

klogger wrote:
Rustingle wrote:1. The original signed, executed credit agreement/s and any terms and conditions that applied to the account/s at the time of default and at the time the account/s was/were opened.


I would have thought that they would never provide you with the original, as that would mean they no longer hold it, and therefore can not collect on it as you would then be the holder of the your own debt. You may be able to ask for a copy or to go and see the original at one of their offices. I can't see any way that you can discharge it without getting them to show the original to a judge as proof that they are the holder of the debt. You could let them know that they would be required to show the original in court, they may back of then and discharge it in the knowledge that they can't win (assuming that they don't hold the original). If they do show it in court then you would need to verify it as the original. That may require a computer and a microscope to look for signs that the document signature is printed and not signed by a pen. I would look for a dotted image from a printer rather than a fluid flow of ink from a pen, but I am not sure how good laser printers are, so you may not be able to distinguish easily.

Good luck though, and keep us informed if you have either success or failure - any information is useful.


Thanks for the input. I agree that to discharge would require the original, which they probably don't posess. This is a preliminary step of gathering all paperwork before actually attempting to challenge the loan and will hopefully give me a better case. Thanks for the tip on the signature, I will almost certainly have to go to court to challenge this one and that advice may be crucial.

Rusty
Rustingle
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 8:57 pm

Re: Discharging Student Loans

Postby BloodSack » Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:50 am

Just wondering how you go on with this.

I was amongst the first year of people to be endebted for their education, one year earlier and I would have received a grant so I was pretty annoyed at the time, but my understanding when I took out the loan was that after a certain period which I believed to be ten years, the debt would be cancelled. In other words if you had not achieved an income above the repayment threshold within the said time you would not longer be required to defer and the debt would be cancelled regardless of whether in future years you would acheive a higher income.

I recall this clearly as being a sweetener in order to get the student loans through in the first place which most people begrudgingly accepted thinking if they were going to earn enough to repay within 10 years then the loan was clearly a worth while investment rather than a ball and chain.

My original debt was small, around £1200 but is now somewhere in the region of £3000 due to interest accrued.

The threshold for repayment was also much higher back then than it is for newer students and there is little chance of me passing this anytime soon.

I have written to SLC to request a copy of my original contract so I can at least check the fine print to see if my understanding is correct or whether it was based on urban legend or poor media reporting of the time.

My initial request has gone completely unanswered which is what I expected so my next step will be to send a request recorded delivery, following that up with a data access request etc. I have time and patience on my side.

It would be common sense to acknowledge at some point that it is no longer sensible to have both me and the adminstrators going through the motions of deferment paperwork etc every year and there must be some point at which they write this off. The idea of being chased into retirement (if the concept still exists in 30 years) with this ball and chain hanging on me is not too pleasant. Couple this with the fact that the contract may not actually require me to continue deferments then add the pertinent notion that the contract may also be unlawful based on the grounds of how the finance was created by the tick of my signing of a cheque (the loan agreement) which they used to create the finance.

I probably should have challenged it when the ten years were up but it just seemed easier to send the deferments in, probably still will be, but I'm far more energised about standing up for principle and not being held to ransom by unlawful contracts now than I was in previous years. I'd much rather cancel the debt and not have to face 30 years of being hassled for deferments so I think a little effort now may pay off.

I know they wont be too keen to write it off because as it stands the debt is an asset on their accounts and one that grows annually.
They wont care that I wont be paying it back but they will want to keep it on the books so no doubt there will be resistance to this.

I'll try and keep you posted on updates as and when although I expect it to be a long drawn out process and would really like to hear from anyone else who has challenged their student loan debt, especially longer term ones.

Most specifically what sort of responses you have had back etc.
BloodSack
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:24 am

Re: Discharging Student Loans

Postby BloodSack » Sun Sep 25, 2011 12:39 pm

Okay, just found this after a bit more rooting around, 1994 being the last year I wrote the SLC a cheque for them to bank and lend back to me:

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1994/3045/regulation/12/made

Oh the beauty of legalese!

Cancellation12.—(1) A borrower’s liability to make repayments in respect of all loans shall be cancelled if—(a)he dies; or(b)he is a person to whom paragraph (2) applies.(2) This paragraph applies to a borrower who is not in breach of any obligation in relation to any loan and—(a)if he was aged less than forty when he last entered into an agreement for a loan, if he attains the age of fifty or if the loan for which he last entered into an agreement has been outstanding for not less than twenty five years (whichever event is the sooner); or(b)if he was aged not less than forty when he last entered into an agreement for a loan, if he attains the age of sixty.


Now my understanding of the above is that provided the loan was entered into before the age of 40, upon reaching 50 it will be cancelled, or upon a period of 25 years passing from when the loan was agreed it will be cancelled, whichever event is sooner. Or if you were over 40 when you took the loan out it will be cancelled upon reaching 60.
Provided that you are not in breach of any obligation in relation to any loan.

I would understand "any loan" to mean "any student loan" although it the wording is ambiguous. A breach of an obligation could potentially therefore rescind your right to have the agreement cancelled. So if I refuse to send my deferment docs in I might be considered in breach and therefore lose the right to have the debt cancelled at the appropriate time.

It looks like I don't have to worry about being chased into retirement and I don't think it makes sense from a personal point of view to pick this as an opportunity to challenge the lawfulness of the loan contract.

I will still write asking for a copy of the original though.

NB: I am not qualified to give legal advice.
BloodSack
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 11:24 am

Re: Discharging Student Loans

Postby musashi » Tue Sep 27, 2011 8:28 pm

Please bear in mind that the rules of the game can be changed at any time by the rule-makers. Deferment and set off etc can be changed, or even removed. Foreclosure is always an option.

I'm not sure if you are in a contract or an agreement. Agreements are more powerful than contracts and harder to get out of. As for the future - and age fifty is the far future in which time much may happen - I can tell you that successive future contracts can be regarded as addenda, taking their life from the original parent contract where consideration already exists and no other is then necessary. Attacks of "failure of consideration" may fail for this reason. Accordingly, terms may change at any time. Just as it does with some credit cards.

Also, some benefit acquired from a third party - not part of the contract - as a consequence of the contract, may defeat an attack based on failure of consideration. I.E you received a benefit as a direct consequence of the contract.

If it is a contract, then UNIDROIT comes into play and, if they mess around with you you can make a request for assurance of adequate performance. Failure to provide this within seven days entitles you to rescind any contract.

An agreement just may be - and I mean may be - evidence of a debt, but it is not a promissory note any more than the Mortgage Agreement is a promissory note. In that case the Mortgage Agreement is a power of attorney to do anything that you could do (write a promissory note. But banks are chartered to operate in commerce and can do things there that we can't do) so the mortgage company prepares a promissory note in your name and signs it before launching it out into securities land. Which is the sole reason they cannot produce it in court.
An agreement is no more than an agreement to pay. It is not, I think, evidence of a debt and is, therefore, no use in securities land.

By the way, I smell commercial redemption here - particularly at the mention of Thomas of 21st centurypolitix and discharging debt.
Study is your best friend - not free advice from the likes of us. Commercial redemption will only make you unhappy.
Musashi
It's still fucked, isn't it?
User avatar
musashi
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1153
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:21 pm

Re: Discharging Student Loans

Postby musashi » Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:55 pm

The Infant Relief Act 1874 will be worth looking at for all you student loan types.
Basically, an infant - for the purposes of the ACT - is someone who has not yet completed their twentieth year, cannot enter a contract, and cannot be made to honour any financial agreement even if the have signed an agreement, and even after reaching the age of majority.
just read it.
It's a very small Act, easy to read and digest.
It might just be a student loan killer.
Musashi
It's still fucked, isn't it?
User avatar
musashi
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1153
Joined: Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:21 pm

PreviousNext

Return to General Freeman related questions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest