Student loans - about to serve the killing blow, read 2nd pg

Student loans - about to serve the killing blow, read 2nd pg

Postby Lithargoel » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:41 pm

Hello everyone,
I want to contribute and not just ask a bunch of questions so I'm doing my best to create something of value here.
I've not really properly seen the addressing of student loans under the current system, where your employer deducts repayments on instruction of HM Revenue & Custom (who does so by instruction of Student Loans Company Limited).
So, it's a bit trickier to get these dismissed, it would seem. I'm trying to get my partner's 15k debt written off. He's not fully aware of the whole freeman thing so he still thinks it's some sort of legal loophole. He is not willing to instruct his employer to just "stop" payments -- I myself am unsure what one's employer would say to such a request?

Anyway, here's my letter, which I am writing to the CEO of Student Loans Company Limited and CCing the Finances Department - any suggestions before I send this off? This would help not just my partner, but everyone in the future who is attempting this avenue.

Ralph Seymour-Jackson
Student Loans Company Limited
100 Bothwell Street
Glasgow
G2 7JD

CC: <Contact Name> Finances Department

<Date>

Re: Customer Reference <XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX>


WITHOUT PREJUDICE

Notice of Discharge of Outstanding Demand and Request for Clarification.


Dear Mr Seymour-Jackson

Please read the following notice thoroughly and carefully before responding. It is a notice. It informs you. It means what it says.

The reason why you need to read carefully is simple. I am offering conditional agreement. This removes controversy, and means that you no longer have any ultimate recourse to a court of law in this matter, because there is no controversy upon which it could adjudicate. You always have the option of dragging these conditions into a court of law only to be told that they are, indeed, perfectly lawful. That is, of course, always your prerogative should you decide to waste your time.

For this reason it is important that you consider and respond to the offer in substance. The 'nearest official form' will not suffice, and consequently is likely to be ignored by myself without any dishonour on my part.

On the other hand there is a time-limit on the agreement being offered. It is reasonable, and if it runs out then you and all associated parties are in default, removing any and all lawful excuse on your part for proceeding in this matter.

For these reasons it is recommended that you carefully consider this notice and respond in substance, which means actually addressing the points raised herein.

You have instructed HM Revenue & Customs to deduct payments from my wages via my employer for a supposed outstanding debt of £15,689.70 on 31st March 2009.

I would be happy to settle any financial obligation I might lawfully owe, as soon as I have received the following documentation from you:

1.Validation of the debt (the actual accounting);
2.Verification of your claim against me (a sworn affidavit or a hand signed invoice in accordance with The Bills of Exchange Act 1882);
3.A copy of the contract signed by both parties and therefore binding both parties.

I hereby give you ten (10) days to reply to this notice from the above date with a notice sent using recorded post and signed under full commercial liability and penalties of perjury, assuring and promising me that all of the replies and details given to the above requests are true and without deception, fraud or mischief. Your said failure to provide the aforementioned documentation within ten (10) days, from the above date, to validate the debt, will constitute your tacit agreement to the following terms:

1.That the debt did not exist in the first place;
OR
2.It has already been paid in full;
AND
3.You will instruct HM Revenue & Customs to cease all unlawful demands for payment via my employer;
4.That any further damages I suffer, you will be held culpable;
5.You will no longer pursue this matter any further.

Please Note: No telephone calls regarding this matter will be accepted as an honourable response to this notice. I wish to deal with this matter in writing and I do not give your organisation permission to contact me by telephone. Should it do so, I must further warn you that the calls could constitute ‘harassment’ and I may take action under Section 1 of The Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

Yours sincerely


By: Given-Names: FamilyName; Authorised Representative

No assured value, No liability. All Natural Inalienable Rights Reserved.

Please address all future correspondence in the matter to a direct Human Self, namely Given-Names: of the FamilyName family, as commonly called.


So, what do you think? It's my demands which I am unsure of. I've taken a guess that they could instruct HMRC to cease payments, but I also saw on their website that they only "exchange information" on accounts with HMRC once a year... does that mean they'd do it then, or are they forced to do it immediately? I don't know...

Any thoughts/suggestions from more experienced free men and women? Thanks in advance.
Last edited by Lithargoel on Sun Aug 23, 2009 1:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Student loans - my suggested template

Postby Farmer » Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:46 pm

Lithargoel wrote:So, what do you think? It's my demands which I am unsure of. I've taken a guess that they could instruct HMRC to cease payments, but I also saw on their website that they only "exchange information" on accounts with HMRC once a year... does that mean they'd do it then, or are they forced to do it immediately? I don't know...


What does "exchanging information" mean. Are they saying that if an ex student dies they will still be collecting until the right time of the year? I think not. That has to just be policy, and policies can be changed.
If you're scared of 'them' poisoning 'us' with some shit then maybe you haven't noticed the shit they are already poisoning us with.
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Re: Student loans - my suggested template

Postby consumerpada » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:45 pm

Thats a great letter, I look forward to seeing their reply, another approach in your belt so to speak is to see the £xxx's as representative of an account being held for you in liu of your education, if you have finished with your education then I suppose in theory thats why they are after the money. For instance the study of law requires financing even if it is part time, instead of refusing to pay ask for more. Study Law. :giggle:
Knowledge makes a (wo)man unfit to be a slave." — Frederick Douglass
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Re: Student loans - my suggested template

Postby kevin » Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:55 pm

Who are student loads company ltd?

They must be a private company no?

How can they "instruct" HM Revenue and Customs, which is a Government department, to do anything?

So........a LTD company lend you money while your in Uni and HM revenue and customs collect it back....very odd


good luck, it's great to see you looking at this :sun: :shake:
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Re: Student loans - my suggested template

Postby kevin » Wed Jun 24, 2009 6:54 pm

Remit
you are here... Home > About Us > remit

The student loans scheme was introduced by the Education (Student Loans) Act 1990 and the Education (Student Loans) (Northern Ireland) Order 1990. The Student Loans Company was established to administer this scheme within the policy context and legislative framework laid down by the government. It was incorporated as a private limited company in 1989 and started trading in 1990.



The Student Loans Company is subject to the provisions of The Companies Act 1985 and The Companies Act 2006, and in addition is required to operate within the limits of a Framework Document (PDF, 14.7 kb) between the Company and the Government. (please note that the Annexes to the Framework Document are currently under review).

Our purpose and priorities, what we will deliver and how we will do it, are set out in our three-year Delivery Strategy (66.7kb) which was created in response to the Strategic Commission (48kb) issued by DIUS.

The Company’s objectives and performance targets, and the resources it will be provided with to deliver these, are outlined in the Annual Performance and Resources Agreement (4242kb) for 2008-09.

The Student Loans Company, which is wholly owned by the Secretary of State for Innovation, Universities and Skills and Scottish Ministers, is entirely government funded and is non-profit making. It was designated a Non-Departmental Public Body (NDPB) on 1 April 1996.





So, why is it a Limited company



.
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Re: Student loans - my suggested template

Postby Lithargoel » Wed Jun 24, 2009 8:22 pm

That's a very good question, I wonder if we can find out the answer by a Freedom of Information request? Do they answer those kinds of questions?

It reminds me of the Federal Reserve and the Bank of England, the private corporations that they are, handling the money creation and distribution. It seems like the incestuous bond between government and private interests is everywhere.


Well, the Notice has been sent today... After the fact, I've realised I should have sent an affidavit with it too, as an unrebutted affidavit too would have been very powerful... But I'm determined this will work. Will keep you all updated.
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Re: Student loans - my suggested template

Postby consumerpada » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:16 pm

Well I took my own advice (for once) and announced my interest in a law degree to the 'student loans company' who advised me that so long as my studies were continuing the they would continue to fund me.

so I found a law degree (OU) and have signed up from year two ( this is some basic stuff i tell ya) any how I heard back to day that the SLC have fully financed the request and I have '£0 to pay' towards to course.

25% of this module is 'the supremacy of EU law!' AS IF! they are going to love me :giggle:
Knowledge makes a (wo)man unfit to be a slave." — Frederick Douglass
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Re: Student loans - my suggested template

Postby Lithargoel » Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:47 am

An update on this - Student Loans Company Limited did not respond to my first letter. They have fallen into dishonour but I want to look good and build up evidence so I sent them the following Notice of Fault and Opportunity to Cure, some of which sounds like this:

...

You have instructed HM Revenue & Customs to deduct payments from my wages via my employer for a supposed outstanding debt of £15,689.70 as of 31st March 2009.

I previously sent to you by recorded post a Notice of Discharge of Outstanding Demand and Request for Clarification (photocopy enclosed) on DATE and have not heard a response from you or anyone in your company regarding the documentation I have asked for to validate this debt.

This means that Student Loans Company Limited has fallen into dishonour by not responding to my Notice. As per my Notice, you were informed that failing to respond will form a tacit agreement to the terms stated, thereby giving me permanent estoppel by acquiescence, however I am willing to give you the opportunity to cure by extending to you another ten (10) days to respond to this Notice.

Please provide the following documentation:

1.Validation of the debt (the actual accounting);
2.Verification of your claim against me (a sworn affidavit or a hand signed invoice in accordance with The Bills of Exchange Act 1882);
3.A copy of the contract signed by both parties and therefore binding both parties.

I hereby give you ten (10) days to reply to this notice from the above date with a notice sent using recorded post and signed under full commercial liability and penalties of perjury, assuring and promising me that all of the replies and details given to the above requests are true and without deception, fraud or mischief. Your said failure to provide the aforementioned documentation within ten (10) days, from the above date, to validate the debt, will constitute your tacit agreement to the following terms:

1.That the debt did not exist in the first place;
OR
2.It has already been paid in full;
AND
3.You will instruct HM Revenue & Customs to cease all unlawful demands for payment via my employer;
4.That any further damages I suffer, you will be held culpable;
5.You will no longer pursue this matter any further.

Just to reiterate the seriousness of this matter, if you do not respond to this Notice within the next ten (10) days I will have acquired permanent estoppel by acquiescence against you for any further payments and I will instruct HM Revenue & Customs of our agreement that they must cease unlawful demands for payment immediately and pursue the matter no longer with myself and/or my employer.

.....................................................................................................................

and also an affidavit which I had witnessed by a solicitor in St Albans (and that was certainly an interesting experience - I think she knew exactly what I was doing and wished me "good luck"):

BE IT ACKNOWLEDGED, that I, XXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXX,
of XX XXXXXXXXXX XXXXXX, United Kingdom,
the undersigned deponent, being of legal age, do hereby depose and say under oath as follows:


1.I do not have any lawfully binding contracts with Student Loans Company Limited in accordance with The Bills of Exchange Act 1882 and The Fraud Act 2006.

2.THE written contents of Notice of Fault and Opportunity To Cure annexed hereto are true.



And I affirm that the foregoing is true to the best of my knowledge and belief, subject to the penalties of false statement.

Witness my hand under the penalties of perjury this day of _______________ , 2009 .

........................................................................................................................




So, we'll see what happens...
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Re: Student loans - my suggested template

Postby Lithargoel » Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:54 pm

I got a response from Student Loans Company Limited - see the attached file.

Does anyone have any advice on this? I think they're just talking out of their collective buttholes saying "the Notices you have sought to serve have no legal effect in this jurisdiction and deductions shall continue through HMRC. Should you default upon your loan repayment obligations, you are in breach of this contract and recovery action will be taken as appropriate."

But they never sent me a copy of this supposed contract, or responded to any of my requests for clarification on this contract.

Should I just proceed and cease repayments through my partner's employer and handle whatever they may throw at him (DCAs or whatever)?

Advice would be appreciated - this is a £16,000 debt I'd love to get rid of for him.
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Re: Student loans - I'm paving the way for others, I hope

Postby phillwelsh » Thu Aug 20, 2009 4:42 pm

Hi,
Very interesting thread and very good letters.

It seems kinda weird to me that they have not even tried to fob you off with the usual Terms and Conditions, Loan Agreements and banking statements that the bankers usually send around.

Could it be that the Student Loan company is above the law :gasp:

I doubt it!

Go get em!!

Phill
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