Baby Born Free set to cross international borders

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Re: Baby Born Free set to cross international borders

Postby Veronica » Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:02 pm

"Without Prejudice" means "for discussion/negotiation only ... and can't be used as evidence in a Court".
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Re: Baby Born Free set to cross international borders

Postby musashi » Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:49 am

Is it my crooked thinking, or does getting one of their passports not take you into their fold?
I'd be glad to have it explained to me in what manner applying for, paying for, and using their registered document, with their number, their allcaps name, their embossed stamp and so on, does not put you under their jurisdiction; does not contract you in to the corporation by the "benefit" of their sub-set corporate passport services.
Can this not be presented by the state as a true, conscious, consensual acceptance of contracting into their jurisdiction - as opposed to the deceitfully applied ones we're all up in arms about? The passport is a benefit of the corporation, and the consequence of the benefit is their jurisdiction.
It seems to me that the only real objection by the passport office was the lack of a pro forma birth certificate as proof of citizenship, and once other paperwork was accepted as proof the usual state owned and controlled passport would be issued. With all the usual attendant corporate rules and regulations and enforcement agencies.
All I can see that's happened here is a success about not registering a child - presumably to prevent the state having "rights" over the child - then handing them those very "rights" by obtaining one of their passports.
As I say, I would be glad of the correction but, in any case, I wish this family well.
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Re: Baby Born Free set to cross international borders

Postby The Freeman-on-the-Land known as Michael » Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:12 am

musashi wrote:Is it my crooked thinking, or does getting one of their passports not take you into their fold?
I'd be glad to have it explained to me in what manner applying for, paying for, and using their registered document, with their number, their allcaps name, their embossed stamp and so on, does not put you under their jurisdiction; does not contract you in to the corporation by the "benefit" of their sub-set corporate passport services.
Can this not be presented by the state as a true, conscious, consensual acceptance of contracting into their jurisdiction - as opposed to the deceitfully applied ones we're all up in arms about? The passport is a benefit of the corporation, and the consequence of the benefit is their jurisdiction.
It seems to me that the only real objection by the passport office was the lack of a pro forma birth certificate as proof of citizenship, and once other paperwork was accepted as proof the usual state owned and controlled passport would be issued. With all the usual attendant corporate rules and regulations and enforcement agencies.
All I can see that's happened here is a success about not registering a child - presumably to prevent the state having "rights" over the child - then handing them those very "rights" by obtaining one of their passports.
As I say, I would be glad of the correction but, in any case, I wish this family well.
Musashi


Thank you for your comments my friend, but with all due respect, your concern is misplaced and your understanding of what confers "jurisdiction" is somewhat misled.

A UK Passport is a Security Agreement loaned to the holder by HMQ, which allows said holder to cross international borders. It is not a benefit conferred upon the holder, it is a right of everybody born on these shores or those people with parents born here. Without a Diplomatic Passport, it is the only realistic way to leave and return to this country whenever one chooses - a right granted in law by the Magna Carta and echoed by the Union with Scotland Act 1706.

The difference being in this particular case that we created a STRAWMAN for our daughter for the sole purpose of the passport application, rather than allowing the Crown to do so in an application for a Birth Certificate, the consequence of which is that no implied or express jurisdiction over our child has been granted to the state for any purpose whatsoever. In actual fact, we have expressly denied jurisdiction by declaration for the avoidance of doubt.

Not every form confers jurisdiction and an unalienable right is not a benefit-privilege. Understanding this makes things whole lot easier.

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Re: Baby Born Free set to cross international borders

Postby jonboy » Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:29 am

In my opinion, a true success story will be someone crossing international borders at will without a passport.
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Re: Baby Born Free set to cross international borders

Postby The Freeman-on-the-Land known as Michael » Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:55 am

jonboy wrote:In my opinion, a true success story will be someone crossing international borders at will without a passport.


So you don't consider this a "true success story" then Jonboy?

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Re: Baby Born Free set to cross international borders

Postby Veronica » Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:23 am

The Freeman-on-the-Land known as Michael wrote:
jonboy wrote:In my opinion, a true success story will be someone crossing international borders at will without a passport.


So you don't consider this a "true success story" then Jonboy? If that is the case, please feel free to substantiate your opinion, rather than simply implying that is what you think without actually saying it, let alone citing any evidence in support of your position.

Peace

No ... that's not what jonboy actually said.

He did NOT say that this wasn't a "success story". And it is, without a doubt, a "success story".

What jonboy did was to add the adjective "true" ... in the sense of being "basic", "fundamental" etc.i.e. "ultimate" ... he wasn't using the adjective "true" to imply any lying (and you know he wasn't implying that!). All he did was to point out that, we have the right to travel - anywhere - in peace - without any encumbrance whatsoever.

And, when we can do that, we will have reached the point of "fundamental success".

He was pointing out that we still have some way to go, in order to reach that ULTIMATE goal.

It may very well be, Michael, that your efforts create a stepping stone in that direction.

(As for boarding a plane without a passport, btw, I think we all know that all you have to do is to carry a bomb, and be accompanied by a CIA Officer ... which means you'll walk around ALL the so-called "security". Which is a bit like "getting into the USA unencumbered" ... you fly to Mexico, hire an elephant to ride, and a 6-piece Marimba Band ... and walk north across the Rio Grande bridge ... as one guy proved - by actually doing it - a few years ago)
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"There is no path to peace, peace IS the path" (Mahatma Ghandi)
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Re: Baby Born Free set to cross international borders

Postby The Freeman-on-the-Land known as Michael » Tue Nov 30, 2010 12:09 pm

Since apologies if I misconstrued the meaning of your comment Jonboy. It is an easy thing to do sometimes when the words are not accompanied by a facial expression and tone of voice.

And many thanks for your comments Veronica. Much appreciated.

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Re: Baby Born Free set to cross international borders

Postby jonboy » Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:06 pm

No offence taken.

I meant exactly what V said. We should have the right to travel where we like, when we like, without submitting to any "official" bollocks.

Yes I do appreciate the success of getting a passport without a Berth Certificate. :yes:
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Re: Baby Born Free set to cross international borders

Postby thepowerofnow » Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:39 pm

Hi Michael

thanks for sharing.

where/ow was your baby born? in an NHS hospital, and/or delivered by NHS employees?

And do you think these birth details have an effect upon the ability to bring a free baby into the world?
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Re: Baby Born Free set to cross international borders

Postby strawmansarah » Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:29 pm

musashi wrote:Is it my crooked thinking, or does getting one of their passports not take you into their fold?


Take a look at the printed page in the passport, where the 'photo would go (not sure if you need a 'photo for a baby) Does it say "Nationality: BRITISH CITIZEN"? If so, you've signed that little'un up to the state!
passport.jpg

THEIR rules apply to the travelling etc, therefore I really truly believe she is one of theirs now, in the same way as if you'd given her a birth cert... :puzz:

It's not just the parents of a child who can 'inform' on a birth. ANY Person present/aware of the birth can do so IF it happened in a state facility or with ANY state intervention.
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