Success with the Taxman revisited

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Success with the Taxman revisited

Postby openedeyes » Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:41 pm

Hi again folks,

(If you are new to this site you need to know that Ombudswomen and Adjudicator are the same and are interchangeable here as they are by the system)

Apologies to everybody for my long delay in getting back (especially to Dreadlock for all of his wisdom and help), a lot of things have happened since I last posted, which I think we will all learn much from. I was loath to say anything on this forum while I was still battling with HMRC or TMRC (the monarch’s revenue collectors), depending on how you like to view some woman sitting on a personal fortune of near 20 trillion pounds, while the country is seeing food banks, hospitals failing as they’re bled dry (pardon the pun) of money to repay the huge interest on PFIs to merchant bankers, etc, you know the rest. I am aware that our posts are being spied upon and that is why I needed to keep my cards close to my chest. Now, I am free to post.

Okay to catch up. In a nutshell the revenue hounded me for alleged back tax even though I was on PAYE in work. They ignored my letters and phone calls and increased the sums until I was being threatened with charges, interest and having to complete a self-assessment form. I brought my story to this forum and from advise and encouragement I was able to successfully challenge the ungodly.

By way of various instruments I demanded that the revenue answer certain questions and provide proof in Law of its right to levy taxes and by sending the Ombudswoman: Judy Clements, copies of all correspondence I involved her as my witness, although judging by her latest letter to me – a reluctant witness. Miraculously the monies were written-off, I was given £20 as compensation (which I gave to a food bank) and then it was discovered that they actually owed me money and gave me a £180 tax refund (I have since been awarded a further £100 compensation).

The revenue stated it was able to ‘give up’ on pursuit of the monies due to something called an Extra Statutory Concession A19, from then on referred to as an ESC A19 (more about this later). I disagreed and argued it was due to its failure to respond to My Lawful Notice Of Irrevocable Estoppel By Acquiescence within the allotted reasonable time period (as it is they never responded to it at all). Since that time I have been billing the revenue substantial sums for receiving information and substantial sums for replying to all mail that fails to provide the requested information and a further substantial sum per day until I receive that information, or they pay my bill, which is now huge.

As I had the back tax demand dropped and had a nice tax rebate I was content to just continue billing the revenue. But the Ombudswoman took matters further and demanded that the revenue give an account of itself in the form of a report - and that was pretty much the situation at the end of part one of my story.

The Ombudswoman sent me a copy of the report and asked me to comment. Bearing Dreadlock’s advice in mind re: brevity I responded. Although the revenue’s report looked and read as though a 12-year old child had prepared it (paragraphs not numbered, poor grammar and naïve wording throughout) the tone was noticeably civilised for a revenue communication. Overall it was pretty much in line with what had happened (leaving out the nastiness), but seemed to concern itself very much with denying receiving letters or making excuses for losing them. However, the real interesting information arrived in the letter from the Adjudicator advising of her decision.

Besides a load of waffle explaining how in her view, she felt that the revenue had acted unprofessionally towards me (disgracefully is more like it), she went on to say that she had told the revenue to send me a written apology and the extra £100 for redress mentioned above, all of which I have received and passed on to a food bank as I did with the previous £20. However, it is the following that I am sure you will be as interested to read as indeed I was. Although I have found the Ombudswoman to be helpful one should be left in no doubt at all that this woman is firmly on the side of the revenue.

The Adjudicator states she cannot be my witness and although she has copies of all instruments and letters I have sent to HMRC she refutes being my witness to them. She received and read copies of all communications, letters and instruments that I sent to the revenue. Regardless of what the Adjudicator says, it seems obvious that one cannot unread what one has read.

In one of my letters, with regard to the ESC A19, I had asked, why the revenue had taken so much time (and at taxpayers’ expense) to arrive at the ESC A19 enabling it to give up on pursuing me (and pursuing me forcefully) for tax. I had argued that it had given up as a result of receiving my instrument of Estoppel by Acquiesces, as it was interesting to note that it was soon after the expiry of the date of reply to that instrument that the revenue gave up. Note: Gave Up or Given Up is the revenue’s wording and I think it might mean more than face value would suggest. Anyhow the Ombudswoman’s reply to my question is interesting in the extreme. Her answer was long and full of padding, but the crux of her reply is as follows:

She states that HMRC told her about its internal guidance which states that it could only consider giving up tax under ESC A19 if an individual asked for tax to be given up. The individual does not have to quote the concession, just ask that they give up the tax due to failure to perform. If you ask: “…hey tax man what the Hell is this all about; why are you charging me this?” as most people say, or something like it, the revenue will tell you why it is charging you, but will not tell you that you should really be saying: “…hey tax man what the Hell is this all about? Give this up as you have failed to perform.”

But the really interesting thing about this is that Extra Statutory Concession A19 is in the revenue’s internal guidance and the Ombudswoman informs me that – it is not available to the public!

So the revenue is saying: If you want us to stop pursuing you for tax you must ask us to do something that only we know about and you don’t and you can’t find out about and we won’t tell you about because we keep it secret and to ourselves. Well folks the CAT is well and truly out of the BAG now! And to ensure that cat stays out of the bag I have been doing a little further reading and exploring and I have arrived at the following:

I think the reason the revenue is so scared of the public becoming aware of how to invoke Extra Statutory Concession A19 is in the wording of the concession. “HMRC can only consider giving up tax under ESC A19 if the customer states clearly that she or he is asking HMRC to give up the tax because of HMRC’s failure.”

I might be wrong but if my research is correct the very fact that HMRC is asking for back tax means they have not collected it when they should have collected it. In other words they have not done their job properly, or to put it another way – they have failed to perform

The other interesting thing is: If, as in my case, I had known how to ask the revenue to invoke Extra Statutory Concession A19 and they had refused then when I served them with My Notice Of Irrevocable Estoppel By Acquiescence they would appear to have no way to turn (however, I am not sure on this point, please see below).

With regard to my demanding that the revenue show me the law they rely on to levy taxes. It consistently fails to provide this information and in correspondence refuses to even mention it. The only person willing to make some mention of it is the Ombudswoman and even then it is unhelpful. I am advised of the following:

The Adjudicator states that she is unable to challenge or question HMRCs right to levy taxes (not that she was ever asked to). She further states that information from the revenue reveals that “HMRC is the UK’s tax authority, created in 2005 to replace the former Inland Revenue and it is a non-ministerial department established by the Commissioners for Revenue and Customs Act 2005. Whatever all that means is totally irrelevant and in my view a smoke screen as it still fails to provide the proof I have asked for and to which I am entitled.

In conclusion

I have learned much from reading and taking part in debate and I am hoping that what I have discovered, particularly about Extra Statutory Concession A19 will help others. I feel confident about the revenue’s need to hide how to invoke this concession from the public, however, I am not too sure with regard to whether servants can re-invoke it later to save face.

My understanding is if later they ‘gave up’ on pursuing monies they could not then cite ESC A19 and, as in my case, would have to accede that it was due to failing to conform to my Estoppel By Acquiescence notice, and if this is in deed the case it would really throw open the doors. But as stated, I am not sure whether - if after refusing to invoke ESC A19 - they could invoke it later on. It would be interesting to hear if anybody has anything on this. Also does anybody know of any other sneaky means the revenue can employ to confuse us and save face?

There is an understanding of human behaviour in psychology called: fight or flight, it goes back to our primordial days when we found ourselves in a situation where we had to run-a-way or fight an attacker. I had tried to escape the clutches of HMRC by using polite and logical reasoning (flight). I soon discovered that they do not respond to polite and civilised reasoning – they see it as a weakness; therefore, I had no other route but to retaliate (fight).

After being subject to a frightening campaign of forcefully pursuing me with lies and rude and offensive communications for alleged back tax, I appear to have HMRC on the run. They have awarded me money and found money they owed me. However, it is doubtful that this would have been possible without the help I have received here.

For any new people reading this, who are being bullied by the taxman, you need to understand that you too can fight back with the help of the good intelligent and knowledgeable people on this site. I learned so much from the people on this site and the people on Get Out Of Debt Free and I can’t thank everybody enough.

After I make this post I will be going to the post office to send a communication to the revenue enclosing my current bill notifying it of its accumulated liability to me, which now stands at £468,375.
"There is no such thing as Country; there is the beautiful Earth with high and low points.
Our brothers and sisters fill the high points and water fills the low" (eam 1968)
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Re: Success with the Taxman revisited

Postby MikeThomas » Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:08 pm

Well done Openedeyes :cheer: :cheer: :cheer: I'm made up for 'ya!
We are the people our parents told us NOT TO PLAY WITH
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Re: Success with the Taxman revisited

Postby Dreadlock » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:07 pm

Well done! Glad I could help. I'm sure that info you provided will prove very useful to others too. :yes:
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Re: Success with the Taxman revisited

Postby openedeyes » Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:15 am

Cheers guys,

Like most people on here I have learned from reading posts and taking part in debates and perhaps I have a little knowledge, which I am willing to pass on to help others.
"There is no such thing as Country; there is the beautiful Earth with high and low points.
Our brothers and sisters fill the high points and water fills the low" (eam 1968)
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