What to do when bailiffs visit

Re: What to do when bailiffs visit

Postby Shivni » Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:14 am

Is there no way of dealing with the balliffs that are acting on behalf of the magistrates?

I mean for example, if I did get a solicitor to witness that all my possession now belong to someone else would they still be able to take any goods from my abode?

I really hate bullies and this is all crazy!
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Re: What to do when bailiffs visit

Postby holy vehm » Thu Nov 19, 2009 11:25 am

no because you dont own anything for them to take, they can only take what is legally yours otherwise its theft.
they may well take stuff but all your friend has to do is write a letter to the the court informing them that they have siezed stuff that belongs to them and that it should be returned to where it was taken from in the earliest instance and failure to do so will leave them no choice but to add charges of say £1000 per day.
i think im right in saying this is a notice of intent.
make sure you have a copy handy of the contract you have with your friend to show baliffs (at the edge of your propety i.e. garden gate) you are informing them of the situation as it stands at that time, you own nothing.
dont use a family member for this, it cant be someone related to you.

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Re: What to do when bailiffs visit

Postby Arten » Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:36 pm

How do baliffs act against big time gangsters? I will tell you they shit themselves, a mate of my old mans was a big time Gangster and they were let into his place one day lol The guy has done loads of bird for things like murder so the baliffs were with plod.
What happened was this when the baliffs picked up the tv the fella hit it with a machette and said take it now you wankers.
And they pickes up a settee same thing. The old bill did nothing because big time gangsters have them in their pocket.
I am talking about people here in the same league as the Krays :giggle:
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Re: What to do when bailiffs visit

Postby Angel Embraces » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:00 am

thebronze wrote:Hi everyone, I'm new to the forums but i'm not new with dealing with bailiffs (to my eternal regret). I've already used some information from these pages so I thought it might be best to put something back in. I hope this information I provide is in keeping with the spirit of the forum and if I can help at least on person then it's job well done! This post was inspired by a question asked by rainbowfire who was worried about how to deal with bailiffs should they turn up on your doorstep, I was going to post it as a reply but I thought it's a bit lengthy and it might be useful should anyone else find themselves in the same predicament.
If the moderators feel that any of this information is inappropriate for this forum or it's in the wrong place please let me know, and I will remove it straight away.

I'm by no means a 'legal eagle' of any sort and i'm just coming to grips with common law with the help of these pages, but from what I have read there has been a few mentions of what to do when the bailiff comes a knockin'. So I thought I would put together a few bits of information that may prove useful when dealing with parasites.

I know how people feel when debt collectors/bailiffs visit the home or notice is given that they will visit your home. Me personally, against everything I know to be true, self doubt creeps into the equation when parasites turn up to your door unannounced and mob handed. Parasites prey on the ignorance of the people they come to visit and it is the only tool in their arsenal.

The information below is from my own knowledge, experience and shit i've researched on the internet, but I have used various sources on 'tinternet to guarantee it's accuracy:

Debt Collectors & Bailiffs

1. Debt collectors and bailiffs are NOT the same thing. A debt collector is employed by a debt collection agency and DO NOT have the same power as a bailiff. A debt collector CANNOT enter your home and start taking your shit. EVER.
If a debt collector harrasses you or if they threaten you, tell them to fuck off. Simple. My old method was to threaten them with physical violence, but that was the old me, and i've mellowed now i'm older. Plus i'm not as big as I used to be :mrgreen:

2. A bailiff is used when a warrant of execution is issued by the county court to help recover the debt. However, if a bailiff comes knocking you DO NOT have to let them in, I had a bailiff turn up years ago with plod in tow telling me I HAD to let him in. If you find yourself in this position, don't be worried at all. The plod turn up to ensure that there is no breach of the peace, not to enforce payment of a debt.
a. A bailiff cannot force entry into your home by pushing past you, sticking his foot in the door, drilling locks or any other method. They can enter your house through an open window, unlocked door etc. However, a bailiff can break into your house if you owe money to HMRC (provided they have a magistrates warrant) or if you have unpaid magistrates fines (the government MUST get THEIR money under any circumstances!). I believe to that end there are two types of bailiffs, a certified bailiff (collect the fines) and county court bailiffs (the ones who want to take all your shit).

Dealing With Bailiffs & Debt Collectors

I had dealings with a pretty aggressive debt collector a few years ago who wouldn't leave no matter how politely I asked him, now I am a patient man but I have a very short fuse. I threatened to throw the fucker down the stairs, to his utter surprise which ultimately led to his swift departure. Strangely I never heard a thing from them again. A friend of mine who used to work in the industry told me that some collections agencies won't collect from 'aggressive' debtors. I can't vouch for the accuracy of this, nor do I recommend you it, nor can I guarantee that they won't sell the debt onto another company and send a big fucker round, so be warned :grin:

I know from stories I have read and stories that go around that parasites will try some pretty underhand tactics to get their money.
Please remember, and I can't stress this enough YOU DO NOT HAVE TO LET THEM ENTER YOUR PROPERTY, regardless of what they say.
Bailiffs acting for a mortgage company or landlord can get a county court posession order to evict you and can break in, so if your in this position you will probably need to speak to someone who knows about about that sort of thing.

Bailiffs have been known to make a walking possession order just be looking through your window (a walking possession order makes a note of all your kit for later sale) and post it through your letterbox to sign. DO NOT sign this. Keep it safe, especially if the idiot signed it as this is an illegal levy. For a walking possesion order to be valid a bailiff must enter your property by peaceful means (don't let them in).
A good trick used by bailiffs is telling you they can conduct their business on your doorstep to try and shame you into letting you in (so your neighbours won't find out you owe money). Fuck 'em. I have been in debt in the past and i still owe a bit of money now. I'm not ashamed of it and neither should you be.

Please note, if a bailiff has made peaceful entry for a walking possession order, he can come back at anytime and remove your belongings, and break into your house to do it.
A bailiff & debt collector are not your friends, but they will try every social engineering trick in the book to try and get access to your home from using the phone to 'borrow your toilet'. Do not let them. Ever. Ever.

What They Can & Can't Take(based on the assumption they have got in)

Bailiffs can take non essential items like some items of furniture (the sites i've been to, directgov, consumeractiongroup, and various others are sketchy on the details of this particular item) your TV, your playstation (god forbid!), etc, anything of value outside your property and they can also take your car (unless it is subject to a HP agreement).

What they can't take:
They can't take your cooker, fridge, clothing, your bed, most furniture (still sketchy), and reasonable tools of the trade. Like I said at the start of this post, i'm new to common law so perhaps someone with a bit more knowledge might be able to decipher that what bailiffs can and can't take is set out by statute (law of the high seas? :puzz: )

They can also not take anything that does not belong to the person named on the warrant so anything belonging to your wife/girlfriend/boyfriend is a no no (however proof of ownership is required later, after they have seized your stuff), so if anyone is worried that a bailiff might turn up to take your car - sell it to your better half!
Also, did you know that you can hide your belongings? You certainly can. You can't hide it after a walking posession as it no longer belongs to you, but if your worried about ANY bailiff coming to kick your door in (more for a certified bailiff), you can hide your shit with your neighbour and there is fuck all they can do about it.

I hope i've covered everything but i've probably missed some things so if anyone notices any omitions or mistakes please let me know. I've been up reading on this forum since I started work last night at 7pm, and as I've been helped already i'm eager to give something back.

If anyone has had problems with parasites knocking at your door and this helps in anyway. Fantastic!

Again mods, please take this post in the spirit it was intended. I'm new to all this!


Wow thats fantastic info, thanks a whole heap n bunches too...lol
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Re: What to do when bailiffs visit

Postby brindleskye » Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:23 pm

thebronze wrote:Bailiffs acting for a mortgage company or landlord can get a county court posession order to evict you and can break in, so if your in this position you will probably need to speak to someone who knows about about that sort of thing.


Excellent post. Just one point that few people know about is that in the vast majority of mortgage T&C's there is a clause permitting the lender to enter your property subject to giving you reasonable notice in order to ascertain the condition of the property. What I don't know is how this right of access is enacted.
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Re: What to do when bailiffs visit

Postby big hare » Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:39 am

if doing a signed declaration do you need to list all the property or could it just say that all propety at such an address belongs to such a body?
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Re: What to do when bailiffs visit

Postby anewlifehero » Wed Apr 28, 2010 5:02 pm

umm just a thought but when you say "it doesnt belong to you" whois the "you" we are talking about? your "person" i presume? if we refuse to aknowledge our false identity the we own nothing? therefore nothing can be taken??!!1
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Re: What to do when bailiffs visit

Postby holy vehm » Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:34 pm

big hare wrote:if doing a signed declaration do you need to list all the property or could it just say that all propety at such an address belongs to such a body?


I would say to rule out any mis understandings or mis interpretations you should list everything.

:peace:
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Re: What to do when bailiffs visit

Postby Zenzero » Fri May 14, 2010 9:03 pm

I have found that it's like the magistrate in court, they are looking for you to confirm you are the legal fiction. If you do not confirm your the legal fiction where does that leave them, I would say a dead end. ;)
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Re: What to do when bailiffs visit

Postby treeman » Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:03 pm

Lifted this from the net. :yes:

Harassment of people in debt by creditors



Harassment of people in debt by creditors or their agents is a criminal offence under the Administration of Justice Act 1970. It is often difficult to know what to do when you feel a creditor is not dealing with your account fairly.

In order for you to identify what activities by your creditors may involve harassment and what can be done about the problem, this factsheet outlines:

1. Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act
2. Office of Fair Trading Code of Guidance
3. How to deal with harassment by your creditors
4. Useful addresses

Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act

“S40 Punishment for unlawful harassment of debtors.

1. A person commits an offence if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under a contract he-
* harasses the other with demands for payment which, in respect of their frequency, or the manner or occasion of making any such demand, or of any threat or publicity by which any demand is accompanied, are calculated to subject him or members of his family or household to alarm, distress or humiliation;
* falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;
* falsely represents himself to be authorised in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment; or
* utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character, or purporting to have some official character which he know it has not.
2. A person may be guilty of an offence by virtue of sub-section (1) (a) above if he concerts with others in the taking of such actions as is described in that paragraph, notwithstanding that his own course of conduct does not by itself amount to harassment.”


Office of Fair Trading Code of Guidance

Many activities could count as harassment. It is important to note that “anything done by a person which is reasonable” when trying to recover a debt, is not considered to be harassment. Both the Office of Fair Trading and Trade Associations (run by the credit industry) have produced guidance on what activities may be considered harassment and should therefore be avoided by creditors. The following list is taken from the new Debt Collection Guidance for holders of consumer credit licences.

Creditors are warned by the Office of Fair Trading under the Debt Collection Guidance that the following practices are "considered unfair":

“IT IS UNFAIR TO COMMUNICATE, IN WHATEVER FORM, WITH CONSUMERS IN AN UNCLEAR, INACCURATE OR MISLEADING MANNER.”

This includes:

* Letters that look like court claims
* Not making it clear who the company is or what their role is
* Unhelpful legal language
* Not giving balance statements about the debt when asked
* Contacting you at unreasonable times even when asked not to
* Asking you to contact them on premium rate phone numbers.

“ THOSE CONTACTING DEBTORS MUST NOT BE DECEITFUL BY MISREPRESENTING THEIR AUTHORITY AND/OR THE CORRECT LEGAL POSITION.”

This includes:

* Claiming to work for the court or be a bailiff
* Implying action can be taken that is not legally possible such as implying they could take your property
* Using a business name or logo that implies they are a government body
* Implying that court action has been taken against you when it hasn’t
* Implying not paying your debt is a criminal offence
* Threatening to take court action in England if you live in Scotland or the other way round.

“ PUTTING PRESSURE ON DEBTORS OR THIRD PARTIES IS CONSIDERED TO BE OPPRESSIVE.”

This includes:

* Contacting you too frequently
* Pressurising you to sell property or take out more debt
* Using more than one collection company at the same time or not telling you when your debt has been passed to another company
* Pressurising you to pay in full or in large instalments you cannot afford
* Making threatening gestures or statements
* Ignoring disputes about whether you owe the money
* Trying to embarrass you in public or threatening to tell a third party about your debts such as a neighbour or your family.

“ DEALINGS WITH DEBTORS ARE NOT TO BE DECEITFUL AND/OR UNFAIR.”

Examples include:

* Sending letters addressed to “the occupier” or discussing the debt with someone without knowing if they are you
* Refusing to deal with an adviser acting on your behalf
* Not accepting reasonable offers or passing on payments you make
* Refusing to freeze action if you dispute the debt.

“ CHARGES SHOULD NOT BE LEVIED UNFAIRLY”.

Examples include:

* Claiming collection costs when the original credit agreement didn’t allow this to happen and making you think you are legally liable for the costs
* Not putting the specific amounts that can be added for collection costs in the original credit agreement
* Adding unreasonable charges.

“ THOSE VISITING DEBTORS MUST NOT ACT IN AN UNCLEAR OR THREATENING MANNER.”

* Collectors should explain the reason for any visit and give you notice of the time and date they will call
* They shouldn’t visit if they know you are ill or vulnerable and if they find you are unwell or distressed they should leave
* They should not come in if you do not want them to and should leave when you ask them to
* They shouldn’t visit you at work or somewhere like a hospital.


How to deal with harassment by your creditors

* The first step is to write to a creditor and outline your concerns about the company’s behaviour. Inform them that you are familiar with the terms of Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act and ask that the creditor takes steps to avoid similar occurrences in the future. Tell your creditors how you would prefer to be contacted and ask that they confirm their agreement to this. A letter at this stage may avoid the need to take further action against the company.
* Tell them you are aware of the OFT Debt Collection Guidance and that you will consider making a complaint about their behaviour under the guidance.
* It is usually difficult to persuade the police to prosecute in cases of harassment unless a more serious offence such as violence, fraud or blackmail is also involved. Normally complaints should be made to the trading standards/consumer protection department at your local council. They should investigate whether an offence has been committed and whether prosecution is appropriate. The penalty is a fine of up to £5,000 in the Magistrates Court. Also a conviction is likely to provide evidence that the creditor is no longer a ‘fit and proper person’ to hold a consumer credit licence.
* If Trading Standards will not act it may be worth contacting the Office of Fair Trading directly. The address is at the end of the factsheet. The OFT does not usually take up individual complaints but their Debt Collection Enforcement Team collects information that can be used to take action against creditors who can lose their consumer credit licence.
* The creditor may be a member of a trade association with a code of practice. You could find out if your creditor is a member of a trade association and write to them with your complaint. A code of practice is not legally enforceable but the association may take some action against their members. Details of the main trade associations are at the end of the factsheet under “Useful Addresses”.

OTHER OPTIONS

* Another alternative is for you to pursue your own prosecution in the Magistrates Court. This could involve considerable cost so you need to obtain proper legal advice first.
* BT have a new service called "Choose to Refuse" which might help if you are getting a lot of calls from an unpleasant creditor. You have to key in a pin number after a call. The caller will then get an automated message if you don’t wish to take their call when they ring. The cost of the service is £8.00 per quarter.
* If you receive a telephone service from another provider, contact them and ask if they have a similar service.
* You could refer to the Malicious Communications Act 1988. This deals with the sending of letters or articles for the purpose of causing “distress or anxiety”. A person found guilty can be fined in the Magistrates Court. To prosecute successfully, the letter or article sent would have to convey:-
o A message which is indecent or grossly offensive
o A threat; or
o Information which is false and known or believed to be false by the sender.
* The Criminal Justice Act & Public Order Act 1994 Section 4a makes it a criminal offence to cause “Harassment, alarm or distress” with intent by using “threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour”. This can only be an offence if it happens in a public place not in your own home. The police would need to be contacted and prosecute for this offence.
* The Protection from Harassment Act 1997 makes it a criminal offence to harass people and put “people in fear of violence”. The harassment must happen on at least 2 separate occasions. The police would have to agree to prosecute for this offence.


Useful Addresses

The Finance & Leasing Association (FLA)
2nd Floor, Imperial House
15-19 Kingsway
London WC2B 6UN
Tel No: 020 7836 6511
www.fla.org.uk

The Consumer Credit Trade Association (CCTA)
Suite 8, The Wool Exchange
10 Hustlergate
Bradford
BD1 1RE
Tel: 01274 390 380
www.ccta.co.uk

Credit Services Association Ltd (CSA)
(For Debt Collection Agencies)
Wingrove House
2nd Floor East
Ponteland Road
Newcastle upon Tyne
NE5 3DP
Tel: 0191 286 5656
www.csa-uk.com

Consumer Credit Association (CCAUK)
Queens House
Queens Road
Chester CH1 3BQ
Tel No: 01244 312 044
www.ccauk.org

Mail Order Traders' Association (MOTA)
7 Floor
100 Old Hall Street
Liverpool
L3 9TD
Tel: 0151 227 9456
(No website)

Office of Fair Trading
Fleetbank House
2 – 6 Salisbury Square
London
EC4Y 8JX
Tel No: 08457 224 499
www.oft.gov.uk

If your complaint is against a solicitors firm acting for a creditor, a complaint can be made to:

Consumer Complaints Service
The Law Society
Victoria Court
8 Dormer Place
Leamington Spa CV32 5AE
Tel No: 0845 608 6565
www.lawsociety.org.uk

It might help someone,somewhere. :peace:
I'll make no subscription to their paradise.

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