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Can I delegate a Right I don’t possess?

PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:06 pm
by Veronica
Who owns your Washing Machine?

Can I tell someone they can have your Washing Machine?

That all they have to do, is to go round to your place and collect it?

Is that OK?

It’s not?

Why not?

Is it because I don’t have the RIGHT to do that?

(You do … of course. If you choose to donate your Washing Machine to someone else, then you are free to do that … it’s entirely your business)

But I don’t have that Right … do I?

And I certainly can’t TELL SOMEONE ELSE TO DO IT FOR ME … to tell someone else to go round to your house … unhook your Washing Machine … and to give it to another friend of mine.

I don’t have the Right to do it myself … and certainly don’t have the Right to charge a Representative of mine to do it!

Where’s all this leading?

OK … here are a couple of other questions.

Do YOU have the Right to take other people’s money – without their consent?

Do YOU have the Right to ‘create legislation’?

The answers to both of those questions is, of course, “No”.

So the next question is: Well … WHO does have those Rights, then?

And the answer to that is, of course, NO-ONE!!

No-one has the Right to take other people’s money without consent … if they do it is called ‘theft’ or ‘robbery’ … and no-one has the Right to create legislation.

You have the Right to Free Speech and – provided you interact peacefully with everyone else – you have the Right to determine YOUR OWN life … BUT YOU DON’T HAVE THE RIGHT TO DETERMINE MY LIFE … or that of anyone else.

Do you?

You don’t have the Right to tell ME (or anyone else) ‘what to do’.

Do you?

What about Members of Parliament?

When they are Candidates … before they are elected?

Do they have the Rights to take money from others without consent, and to ‘create legislation’?

NO THEY DON’T … any more than anyone else.

So … “The Rights to take money without consent and to create legislation” = ZERO, because NO-ONE has those Rights and you can’t donate what you don’t possess in the first place.

So … where does the Right “To take people’s money forcibly (calling it ‘taxation’) and to create legislation” come from then?

As exercised constantly by “Parliament”?

Well ... it certainly does NOT come from however many people voted for them ... because those people's Rights amounted to ZERO ... and ZERO multiplied by any number you like = ZERO.


Sure, you can – by voting – delegate a Representative to SPEAK in your behalf … BUT THAT’S THE ABSOLUTE LIMIT!

“Speech” is LEGITIMATE for Parliament.

But … as soon as they actually DO anything – ANYTHING AT ALL – they are THOROUGHLY ILLEGITIMATE.

And always have been

And never will be anything other than that … for the simple reason that NO-ONE cal delegate Rights they don’t possess in the first place.

And that’s why you can laugh at the cunts who claim “Parliament is Sovereign”.

It’s not … it is not even LEGITIMATE.

It never has been.

It never could be.




You can scream “democracy” at me, until you are blue in the face.

It makes not one iota of difference.

Any number of votes multiplied by ZERO = ZERO.

Re: Can I delegate a Right I don’t possess?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:59 pm
by musashi
I am no learned judge or wanker politician although I am, perhaps, a learned wanker, and I say that there are no such things as Rights, there never have been and probably never will be. Of those who claim there are such things as Rights I would require proof of claim.

What makes you think there are?
Where did they come from?
How can you acquire them?
Can they be lost?
How may they be exercised?
Do they have limits?
Who defines these limits?
On what authority are these limits made?

Man-made Rights are an agreement, a contract made between men. The democratic system is just such an agreement.
Rights are what we agree as a group we have.
Any group, any individual, may decide what Rights to assume and what Rights to reject either for himself or for others.
Rights, like morality, may be agreed upon or denied as and when and according to exigent needs.

God-given Rights are an unproven claim based on an unproven fantasy.
When a man comes against us with a claim we require proof of claim.
When a man quotes God-given Rights he needs no proof of claim.
Because enough of us have agreed that that fantasy has a reality.

I recognise no Rights in any man, woman or child in any land, time, religion or culture.
What I recognise is Self-Interest as expressed in Mother Nature's Three Great Imperatives.

Survive:- it is no help to my survival if I enrage others, therefore I will treat them well and hopefully they will not trouble me too much.
I must eat but if I take the food of others, or threaten their food supply, it may harm my survival chances. I will respect their Imperatives in order to secure mine. If I want sex I must treat the woman kindly, provide for her needs and protect her children.

Man, unlike the animal, is concerned also with the quality of survival. It is not enough for man to have these things. If the quality is unacceptably poor then man may take what he needs from others.

There are no such things as Rights, only agreements based on Self-interest.


Re: Can I delegate a Right I don’t possess?

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 5:13 pm
by Veronica
musashi wrote:... Of those who claim there are such things as Rights I would require proof of claim.

Oh ... come on ... surely you are more intelligent than that?

I suppose you would deny 'sovereignty' then?

Or freedom?

Well ... if that's the case ... good luck to you.

Your chance of ever being free is zero.

(Of course Rights are not 'man made'! 'Privileges' are man made ... we established that back in 2009. Have we not progressed since 2009?)

Oh … and by the way …

PostPosted: Sat Jan 20, 2018 8:40 pm
by Veronica
musashi wrote:Of those who claim there are such things as Rights I would require proof of claim.

… where is your Proof of Claim that you have the Right to “require proof of claim”?

You claim to have the Right to “require proof of claim” without any Proof of Claim for any such Right (or even the Right to make any statement about anything).

Your statement defeats, undermines and undercuts itself.

It may be 'cool' to throw "Proof of Claim" around, but then others can ask you how you think you have the Right to do ANYTHING ALL ... since you've provided not one shred of evidence that you have the Right to do ANYTHING AT ALL.

Of course, the problem you face is ... there are many things which are SELF-EVIDENT ... AND REQUIRE NO PROOF.


Otherwise we start to argue whether or not there is anything such as "MORALITY", or "DUTY OF CARE" ... and so on.

Do you need - for example - Proof of Claim that "premeditated murder" is bad?

Re: Can I delegate a Right I don’t possess?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:36 pm
by musashi
These two replies, like your book, contain nothing of substance.
They do not address my statements and, like all those who do not have a reasoned argument, you merely attack my credibility.
You make bold declarative statements on this and that matter and, when questioned on the soundness of your ideas, you do not ever offer a reasoned argument but descend instantly into ad hominem attacks disguised as a reasonable philosophical extension of my position. Your traditional response is one of agression, shouting and disparagement and I fail to see how this will progress any argument, debate, or discussion on any matter.
You do not discuss - you attack and attempt to intimidate with verbal violence and common vulgarities. Your responses are exactly the same as the Politically Correct, Antifa, Transgender Black Lives Matter bleeding heart liberal socialists who're destroying our world.
You do not speak reasonably - you shout to stifle dissent and conceal the fact that you really have nothing to say.
You do not offer substance - you offer broad platitudes and vague claims which, when questioned, are not expanded upon but defended with your inevitable violence and rage.
Verbally crucifying someone is ridiculously easy - any primitive know nothing troglodyte can do that. Offering a cogent, supporting argument and a reasoned and reasonable defence of one's ideas clearly is not.

How does a man like you become so angry? Do you even know any more?

Re: Can I delegate a Right I don’t possess?

PostPosted: Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:25 pm
by iamani

Erm..... i'm really not looking to take sides here, i hope nobody will mind if i butt in, i think it's an interesting topic to debate.

Rights are not man-made, they are 'creature-defined'. They are a product of life which itself is contention. It's a matter of spirit. Even animals make claim of right - which man told them to do that? No man did - because it's an integral part of nature's imperative trifecta.


Re: Can I delegate a Right I don’t possess?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:49 pm
by musashi
What an animal does is defined by you here in human terms.
Anthropomorphising; defining animal behaviour and motives in human terms.
The animal, the territorial animal that is, is not defending a claim of right so much as a food resource.

Re: Can I delegate a Right I don’t possess?

PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 7:40 pm
by musashi
Knock knock knock, is there anybody there?

Re: Can I delegate a Right I don’t possess?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:02 am
by iamani

Sorry to keep you waiting musashi, been a bit busy. i actually have a comment prepared, will put up this afternoon when i get home.

Re: Can I delegate a Right I don’t possess?

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 5:05 pm
by iamani

It's not anthropo-wotsit musashi. Anything that is alive has been given the right to live. To survive, an animal has to exercise that right. It exercises the right to live by claiming the right to eat, sleep and shit. The first right is given - all other rights are claimed by force, wit or fleet-ness of foot ie subject to competition.

OK, animals don't conceptualise the claiming of rights - their claims are expressed via their actions. At the same time, although humans do have the capacity to understand the claiming of rights most of them do it at the same level as the animals - unconsciously expressing their claims of right via word or deed.

Can rights be lost? In the case of animals rights are only lost in the event of one life having a superior claim over another. Humans though, can also lose their rights via agreement and ignorance (usually both simultaneously).