DVLA FOI request for information. Will update....

DVLA FOI request for information. Will update....

Postby strawmansarah » Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:19 pm

19 February 2010

Dear Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency,

'I' below, refers to 'any man or woman' who wishes to avail
him/herself of the use of the made up roads of this land using any
motor vehicle privately, in a non-commercial nature whilst harming
no-one and not causing breach of the peace.

1) Is it LAWFULLY REQUIRED that I must have a drivers licence?
2) Is it LAWFULLY REQUIRED that I must take and pass a driving
test?
3) Is it LAWFULLY REQUIRED that I must register my own, paid-for
vehicle with the DVLA and therefore transfer its ownership to the
government and I only become the registered KEEPER?
4) Is it a LAWFUL REQUIREMENT that I must submit my vehicle for an
MOT test/certificate that is only valid for ONE DAY out of 365?
5) Is it a LAWFUL REQUIREMENT that I must annually pay tax (vehicle
licensing fee)?
6) Is it a LAWFUL REQUIREMENT that I must submit a SORN Notice to
you (or anyone else) under ANY circumstance WHATSOEVER?
7) Is it a LAWFUL REQUIREMENT that I must have 3rd party insurance?
8) Am I not already adequately and LAWFULLY insured via my own NI?
9) Is it a LAWFUL REQUIREMENT that my vehicle must have seatbelts
fitted?
10) Is it a LAWFUL requirement that I must wear seatbelts?
11) Is it a LAWFUL requirement that my vehicle must be fitted with
a catalytic converter?
12) Does the government or the DVLA have plans to make it a 'Legal'
requirement to have all cars fitted with SatNav in the forseeable
future?
13) If the answers to any/all of the above twelve (12) questions is
'no', why does the DVLA exist?

Yours faithfully,



Thank you for your request for information under the Freedom of Information Act. As
your request for information falls within the Agency’s day to day business, this is
subsequently being treated as ‘Business as Usual’. I will answer your questions in the
order that you have asked them.
Is it LAWFULLY REQUIRED that I must have a drivers licence?
The Road Traffic Act 1988 requires all drivers to hold a driving licence, which is valid
and appropriate for the class or category of vehicle in order to drive legally on UK roads.
Is it LAWFULLY REQUIRED that I must take and pass a driving test?
Before you can legally drive or ride a vehicle or motorcycle as a learner driver you must
you must be supervised by a qualified driver (not if riding a motorcycle) and display
Learner plates.
In order to drive as a “qualified driver” you must hold the appropriate driving licence for
the vehicle being driven, meet driver minimum age requirements, meet the legal eyesight
and medical standards and pass the relevant driving test
Is it LAWFULLY REQUIRED that I must register my own, paid-for vehicle with the
DVLA and therefore transfer its ownership to the government and I only become the
registered KEEPER?
The register maintained by DVLA is based on vehicles and their keepers - the ‘registered
keepers’, who are responsible for the use and licensing of vehicles on the roads. DVLA’s
register is not a register of legal title to vehicles.
The register held at DVLA is essentially maintained to assist in revenue collection, road
safety and law enforcement generally. It is clearly essential for all these purposes that the
register shows the people in possession of vehicles and responsible for their day to day
use on the road. For this reason the law requires keepers to notify the DVLA as they
acquire and dispose of vehicles and Vehicle Registration Certificates (V5C) are issued to
them to help maintain this process.
Vehicle Registration Documents (V5C’s) are not documents of legal title or proof of
ownership. There is a prominent note on the certificate to makes it clear that the
registered keeper is not necessarily a vehicles legal owner and the fact a certificate is
issued does not affect the legal ownership of a vehicle.
Is it a LAWFUL REQUIREMENT that I must submit my vehicle for an MOT
test/certificate that is only valid for ONE DAY out of 365?
The annual MOT test is a minimum check of the main safety related components on the
vehicle, but each motorist is responsible for keeping their vehicle in a roadworthy
condition throughout the year through regular maintenance and servicing according to
their use of the vehicle.
Is it a LAWFUL REQUIREMENT that I must annually pay tax (vehicle licensing fee)?
Vehicle registration and taxing is governed by the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act
1994 (VERA) (as amended). The Act requires all vehicles that are used or kept on the
public road to be correctly taxed and display a valid tax disc at all times.
Is it a LAWFUL REQUIREMENT that I must submit a SORN Notice to you (or anyone
else) under ANY circumstance WHATSOEVER?
All UK registered vehicles are subject to the requirements of the Vehicle Excise and
Registration Act 1994 (as amended) and the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing)
Regulations 2002. As you are aware, the Act requires the registered keeper of a vehicle to
either license it or, if it is being kept off-road, make a Statutory Off Road Notification
(SORN). This indicates that the vehicle is off the public road and is, therefore, not liable
for vehicle excise duty (VED).
Schedule 4 of the 2002 Regulations requires that where a vehicle licence (tax disc)
expires or is surrendered, the keeper is obliged to make the relevant declaration. SORN
must be made immediately and must be renewed annually if the vehicle is to remain
unlicensed off the public road. These requirements are imposed by the legislation and
failure to comply is deemed an offence.
Is it a LAWFUL REQUIREMENT that I must have 3rd party insurance?
The Road Traffic Act requires all motorists to be insured against their liability for injuries
to others (including passengers) and for damage to other people’s property resulting from
use of a vehicle on a road. It is an offence to drive a car or allow it be driven without
insurance.
Am I not already adequately and LAWFULLY insured via my own NI?
National Insurance does not provide insurance cover to drive a vehicle on the road. The
Road Traffic Act requires all motorists to be insured against their liability for injuries to
others (including passengers) and for damage to other people’s property resulting from
use of a vehicle on a road. It is an offence to drive a car or allow it be driven without
insurance.
Is it a LAWFUL REQUIREMENT that my vehicle must have seatbelts fitted?
We are unable to comment without having full details of your specific vehicle. However
there are legislative requirements to the fitting of seat belts in cars and dual purpose
vehicles. The legislative requirements can be found in The Road Vehicles (Construction
& Use) Regulations 1986 (as amended).
Is it a LAWFUL requirement that I must wear seatbelts?
By law, you must wear a seat belt in a vehicle where one is fitted. There are few
exemptions to this, however, you may wish to follow the link to the THINK Road Safety
web page which gives further details about the legal requirements to use seat belts.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/think/focusareas/invehiclesafety/seatbelts?page=Advice&whoarey
ou_id=
Is it a LAWFUL requirement that my vehicle must be fitted with a catalytic converter?
This is not a matter for DVLA.
Does the government or the DVLA have plans to make it a 'Legal' requirement to have all
cars fitted with SatNav in the forseeable future?
DVLA are not aware of any plans to make it a legal requirement to have all cars fitted
with Satellite Navigation systems in the future.
If the answers to any/all of the above twelve (12) questions is 'no', why does the DVLA
exist?
The function of the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA), which is an executive
agency of the Department for Transport, is to maintain an accurate record of drivers and
vehicles. It is responsible for the collection and enforcement of vehicle excise duty
(VED) and tackling vehicle crime.
Yours sincerely
Policy and External Communications Directorate



25 February 2010

Dear FOI FOI,

Thank you for your point-by-point reply dated 25 February 2001. I
appreciate this must have taken some time to compile so was
therefore disappointed to discover you have not answered one single
question!

You have quoted statutes, legislation and acts to me. These are
merely corporate policy. As you will see from my original FOI
request, I made it VERY CLEAR that I was asking about what is
LAWFUL (not what you call legal), in fact I wrote the words LAWFUL
and LAWFULLY very carefully in capital letters on every single
bullet point, to demonstrate uncategorically what my request was
about.

Therefore, under the FOI, and honouring the original timescale,
please would you reply to the questions I asked and not alter the
'language' therein?

Thank you.

Yours sincerely, and without ill will, vexation or frivolity,


As previously advised in our e-mail of 25 February, your enquiry was not dealt with
under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act 2000. This type of enquiry is
dealt with as routine day to day work, and therefore as advised, we responded under
‘Business as Usual’.
I note your comments that we have not answered any of your questions as you was
asking about lawful (not what we call legal) and that you emphasised this by very
carefully using capital letters on every single bullet point. However, you may wish to
be aware that the word lawful is a synonym (equivalent) of legal. Therefore, all your
questions have been answered.
No further correspondence will be entered into on this matter.
Yours sincerely
Policy and External Communications Directorate


25 February 2010

Dear FOI FOI,

You state in your letter to me today "you may wish to
be aware that the word lawful is a synonym (equivalent) of legal".
IT IS NOT!!!

Your reply is vexatious and dishonourable.

As you refuse to answer ANY of my questions, and now say you will
not enter into any further correspondence, WHO will answer my FOI
questions....????

Yours sincerely, and without ill will, vexation or frivolity,


I wait.........
[url]http://www.lulu.com/shop/the-lioness/so-they-say-you’ve-broken-the-law-challenging-legal-authority/paperback/product-18485231.html[/url]How to challenge the authority of anyone who claims you have broken the law.
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Re: DVLA FOI request for information. Will update....

Postby Farmer » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:15 pm

I've moved this thread to the Freedom of Information Only section of the forum.

The response you got is the standard reply from the DVLA. My own opinion is that they are the wrong people to ask. Have a look at the two requests I made:

FOI - Foreign Motor vehicle Registrations

FOI - Car Documentation
If you're scared of 'them' poisoning 'us' with some shit then maybe you haven't noticed the shit they are already poisoning us with.
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Re: DVLA FOI request for information. Will update....

Postby woodman » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:24 pm

Lawful and Legal.......................that's it in a nutshell, those of us who are awake realise there is a big difference between the two words. Simple research by the robot at DIVLA and he would realise what a fool he is, or maybe he already knows the difference.

Good work though sarah

:peace:
‘Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, no one but ourselves can free our minds’- Robert Nesta Marley (1945 - 1981)

‘All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing’ - Edmund Burke (1729 - 1797)
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Re: DVLA FOI request for information. Will update....

Postby chomerly » Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:13 am

Did they answer question 3 in an honest manner without realising do you think?

3) Is it LAWFULLY REQUIRED that I must register my own, paid-for
vehicle with the DVLA and therefore transfer its ownership to the
government and I only become the registered KEEPER?

Vehicle Registration Documents (V5C’s) are not documents of legal title or proof of
ownership. There is a prominent note on the certificate to makes it clear that the
registered keeper is not necessarily a vehicles legal owner and the fact a certificate is
issued does not affect the legal ownership of a vehicle.

I know they answered your questions on the legal side of things, which tells me that they (DVLA) have no understanding of what is LEGAL (Acts and Statutes) and what is LAWFUL (Common Law), but for me the above answer stood out a mile.
I think if you look at it long enough, and really fathom what they have said, i believe they have inadvertently told us that it is unnecessary to have the V5C as all it does for them is give joinder over you as the owner should you do anything that they deem is against the rules of their game.
You see, i think i am comprehending the processes behind their little game.
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Re: DVLA FOI request for information. Will update....

Postby strawmansarah » Wed Mar 24, 2010 10:25 am

chomerly wrote:... i am comprehending the processes behind their little game.
I think we all comprehend the game... my FOI request was to hear it from the horses mouth. Your point about the V5 I'm not sure about, because, we only get a V5 AFTER the fact of registration, therefore no disclosure was given so it is an unbindong contract anyway :ugeek:
[url]http://www.lulu.com/shop/the-lioness/so-they-say-you’ve-broken-the-law-challenging-legal-authority/paperback/product-18485231.html[/url]How to challenge the authority of anyone who claims you have broken the law.
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Re: DVLA FOI request for information. Will update....

Postby tomrush » Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:35 am

You know what they say, hidden in plain sight...
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Re: DVLA FOI request for information. Will update....

Postby strawmansarah » Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:37 pm

tomrush wrote:You know what they say, hidden in plain sight...
:giggle: lol. well, if you can't see it, you sure as hell can SMELL it... :mrgreen:
[url]http://www.lulu.com/shop/the-lioness/so-they-say-you’ve-broken-the-law-challenging-legal-authority/paperback/product-18485231.html[/url]How to challenge the authority of anyone who claims you have broken the law.
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Re: DVLA FOI request for information. Will update....

Postby pedawson » Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:34 pm

Don't wish to take the thread anywhere other than where it is. I would like to confirm that Lawful IS in the 'ninth Edition' Osborn's Concise Law Dictionary, YET LEGAL isn't.

Confirmation: LAWFUL IS and LEGAL isn't in the Osborn's Concise Law Dictionary

Namaste, Phil:
Don't be surprised to discover that luck favours those who are prepared
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