FOI - Foreign Motor vehicle Registrations

FOI - Foreign Motor vehicle Registrations

Postby Farmer » Mon Sep 28, 2009 5:49 pm

1. What international treaty allows a foreign registered motor vehicle to be driven in the UK?

2. Are there separate treaties for EU member states and non EU member states with regard to question 1?

3. Is there a statute that allows for foreign registered motor vehicles to be impounded and/or crushed (destroyed) as punishment or to remove from public roads?

4. Is the holder or keeper of the manufactures certificate the true owner of a motor vehicle, and what is its purpose?


http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/foreign_motor_vehicle_registrati#outgoing-35231
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Re: FOI - Foreign Motor vehicle Registrations

Postby markie b » Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:43 am

:clap: cracking questions :thinks: john smith :giggle: mines a fosters
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Re: FOI - Foreign Motor vehicle Registrations

Postby Farmer » Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:01 pm

This is the reply so far. I will spend a few days thinking about what to reply. Any suggestions will be welcome:

I will answer your questions in the order you have asked them:

1. The international treaty that allows an EU registered vehicle to circulate within member
states is the Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) Order 1975 (ICO).

2. The ICO does not apply to non EU vehicles. The decision lays with Her Majesties
Revenue and Customs (HMRC) as to whether or not a non EU vehicle is allowed entry
into the UK.

3. All foreign registered vehicles are subject to direct enforcement action including the
wheelclamping and impounding once they have exceeded the six months in any twelve
month ruling stipulated in the ICO.

4. The term 'manufactures certificate' is not known to DVLA and therefore, we assume that
you refer to the registration certificate issued from DVLA.

The register maintained by DVLA is based on vehicles and their keepers - the ‘registered
keepers’, who are responsible for the use and licensing of vehicles on the roads. DVLA’s
register is not a register of legal title to vehicles.
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Re: FOI - Foreign Motor vehicle Registrations

Postby Farmer » Wed Oct 07, 2009 5:47 pm

A copy of the Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) Order 1975 (ICO) has to be bought according to this FOI request.

On The UK Statute Law Database it is only possible to get the following:

The Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) (Amendment) Order 2004
The Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) (Amendment) Order 1996
The Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) (Amendment) Order 1991
The Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) (Amendment) (No. 2) Order 1991
Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) Act 1952

So I wonder what is in it that they want to make difficult to see?
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Re: FOI - Foreign Motor vehicle Registrations

Postby Farmer » Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:39 pm

I have replied with the following today:

Thank you for your reply to my request. Some of the questions have however not been answered correctly, and there are a few points I would like cleared up.

In regard to your answer to question 1:

I have found that the ‘Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) Order 1975 (ICO)’ is not available online, yet the following is:

“The Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) (Amendment) Order 2004
The Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) (Amendment) Order 1996
The Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) (Amendment) Order 1991
The Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) (Amendment) (No. 2) Order 1991
Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) Act 1952”

I find it odd that what you have directed me to, to be the only one that isn’t available without having to purchase it?

In regard to your answer to question 2:

As to whether a non EU motor vehicle may drive on British roads is decided by Her Majesties Revenue and Customs (HMRC), what gives them the power to decide this? In other words: which statute, common law, or judge’s precedent allows this?

In regard to your answer to question 3:

Which statute, common law, or judge’s precedent allows this to be so?


In regard to your answer to question 4:

It was my mistake in pointing to a 'manufactures certificate'. What I meant was the ‘Manufacturers Statement of Origin’ and not the ‘registered keepers’. When a car is manufactured, the ‘Manufacturers Statement of Origin’ is presented to the DVLA; so there must be knowledge of it.
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Re: FOI - Foreign Motor vehicle Registrations

Postby Farmer » Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:05 pm

Received this today. I am ending the request at there is no point in pursuing question 4 at this time:

Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency

Date: 5 November 2009

Dear Mr Smith,

Thank you for your further email of 24 October, in reply to my email of 7 October about foreign motor vehicle registrations to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA). Again as the information you have requested falls within the Agency’s day to day business, your request is subsequently being treated as ‘Business as Usual’.

I will answer your questions in the order you have asked them:

1. The international treaty that allows an EU registered vehicle to circulate within member states is EC Directive 83/182 which amended the Motor Vehicles (International Circulation) Order 1975 (ICO). I have attached an extract of this order which relates to the subject concerned.

2. The exemption for non EU vehicles stems from EC Directive 1855/89.

3. DVLA’s powers to clamp untaxed vehicles are catered for in regulations set out in The Vehicle Excise Duty (Immobilisation, Removal and Disposal of Vehicles) Regulations 1997. Section 6 paragraph 2 and section 12 paragraph 2 of the Vehicle Excise Duty (Immobilisation, Removal and Disposal of Vehicles) Regulations 1997 provide for the release of an immobilised or impounded vehicle upon payment of the prescribed charge.

4. The term ‘Manufacturers Statement of Origin’ is not known to DVLA and therefore we cannot comment on the document.

I hope this explains the position.

Yours sincerely,

Jennifer Thomas
Crime Policy
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Re: FOI - Foreign Motor vehicle Registrations

Postby BaldBeardyDude » Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:29 pm

I think this may soon be moot. With the ratification of the EU Treaty (the EU Constitution but with the flag, motto and anthem removed) then all our cars will be on one, huge, EU database and centrally administered to maximum revenue generation effect.

Bloody good questions, as usual Farmer - cracking job, m8. They do like to laugh when they answer number 4 do they not? So, what will they do when we stumble upon the EXACT name of the bloody paper they have? Sort of a nya-ny-nya-ny-nya-nyaaaa - how fecking petty these organobots really are. The true measure of our warders intellect is painfully apparent.

Keep it up, m8 - grind em down...
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Re: FOI - Foreign Motor vehicle Registrations

Postby jonboy » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:18 pm

"Reason is the life of the law; nay, the common law itself is nothing else but reason. The law which is perfection of reason" Sir Edward Coke 1552-1634.

NO ONE RULES IF NO ONE OBEYS.

It is better to light one candle than to curse the darkness.
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Re: FOI - Foreign Motor vehicle Registrations

Postby BaldBeardyDude » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:27 pm

Bloody good find, Jonboy - excellent reading! (where do a ya find em?)
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Re: FOI - Foreign Motor vehicle Registrations

Postby jonboy » Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:30 pm

I just googled "manufacturers certificate of title" I have to say, this one made me smile. :grin:
"Reason is the life of the law; nay, the common law itself is nothing else but reason. The law which is perfection of reason" Sir Edward Coke 1552-1634.

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