Scottish Power & BCW Group

Scottish Power & BCW Group

Postby notbanksy » Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:51 pm

Hi Folks

I was hoping to get the advice of some more experienced members of the group, as I've had a reply from a DCA that I'm not sure how to deal with. At my last address, I paid Scottish Power for my gas & electricity. I paid every month the amount they said I needed to cover my average spend. At the end of the winter, they said their own miscalculations meant I was £300 behind in payments, and that they would increase the monthly payment so that I would catch up by the end of summer. I paid each bill as it arrived. The when I moved out in August, their final calculation came to £300.... Needless to say I wasn't amused, and I haven't paid it. But to their credit I haven't written to them explaining that I disagree with their calculations. Also, I've lost the meter readings. But I'm certain that my energy usage didn't change over this period - in fact I was deliberately more economical because of this accumulation of unpaid usage.

So they stopped sending me demands and passed the matter to Buchanan Clark & Wells. I'm not going to deal with a DCA because I've been stung so often by them in the past. I sent this letter:

Buchanan Clark & Wells
BCW House
24 George Square
Glasgow
G2 1EG
Dear Sirs,
 Notice and Demand
 DO NOT IGNORE THIS NOTICE
Notice to Principal is Notice to Agent; Notice to Agent is Notice to Principal.
Regarding Reference: Case no: xxxxxxxxx, client ref: xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Thank you for your letter of 9th December, 2011. Notice is hereby given that your claims are insufficient and are hereby refused for cause, without dishonour, due to the fact that you have presented no evidence of your capacity as either:
1. a bona fide party to any contract in which I am also a party; or
2. an agent of a bona fide party to any contract in which I am also a party; or
3. a holder in due course of any debt to which I am obligated.
4. evidence of the validity of the original alleged contract.
Stories of companies falsely claiming money to which they are not entitled are rife. Absent any evidence of capacity, I have no obligation to either confirm or deny any contractual relationship with the alleged creditor mentioned in your correspondence, or yourselves. Accordingly, you are hereby given notice that you are in a condition of estoppel with regard to your claims. Upon receipt of reasonable evidence of sufficient capacity I will give this matter timely attention. I will deem the following to be sufficient evidence:
A complete copy of any and all contracts which affect or affected your relationship with the alleged principal, as they apply to the above-referenced matter. Said contracts must be certified "true, correct, and complete" by affidavit signed under penalty of perjury, by a principal officer of your company in a position to know all the details of your company's relationship with the alleged principal, in his or her personal capacity. The affidavit must also either completely describe any additional verbal, constructive, or implied contracts you have with the alleged principal affecting this matter, or else certify that no such additional contracts exist or existed.
I hereby give you ten (10) days to reply to this notice from the date you receive this communication with a notice sent using recorded post and signed under full commercial liability and penalty of perjury, assuring and promising me that all of the replies and details given to the above requests are true, correct and complete and without deception, fraud or mischief. Your failure to provide all of the aforementioned documentation in the manner described within ten (10) days from the date you receive this communication constitutes your agreement to the following terms:
1. that you are or were a third party interloper;
2. that you have or had no legal standing;
3. that you have or had no first-hand knowledge of this matter;
4. that your claim is or was fraudulent;
5. that you will pursue this matter no further.
Further, you agree:
6. that you accept liability for any damages I suffer or suffered as a result of your actions;
7. that any negative remarks made to a credit reference agency will be removed and confirmation of said removal sent to me within thirty days of this communication;
Please be advised that I am keeping a written record of all correspondence in this regard and therefore do not consent to discuss this matter over the telephone. Any future communications must be written, otherwise you are hereby given notice that they will be ignored without dishonour on my part. Any telephone calls regarding this matter, whether by an actual person, or a computerised system, or personal visits; will be deemed harassment and dealt with accordingly.
If you wish to provide evidence of your capacity as either Agent, or Holder in Due Course, Notice is hereby given that in addition to the above, as Agent you would be subject to the same terms and conditions as the original alleged contract. As Holder in Due Course you would be subject to the same duties and obligations as the original party. In either case I will require evidence of the validity of the original contract, as I have a reasonable expectation that you would do if you did not want to run the risk of acting illegally. If you did not satisfy yourselves as to the validity of the original contract when becoming either Agent or Holder in Due Course, it would show a profound failure in your due diligence and duty of care. If you did so satisfy yourselves, the required information should be readily to hand.
Inexperienced and vulnerable people are easily intimidated into making payments by what would appear to be unsubstantiated threats. At this moment I am not in possession of any evidence that supports such threats. That is precisely what I am requesting. If, in the event, no such evidence is forthcoming, the offering of these threats passes from mere negligence into the realms of criminal activity.
Any previous acknowledgement by me of any alleged debt is hereby withdrawn as having been obtained under duress.
Please notice that the commonly accepted principles of good faith demand that if you have any reasonable objections to this Notice and Demand, that you immediately state any and all such objections and not harbour any hidden objections with which to surprise me later. Therefore it is my reasonable expectation that should you not offer any specific objections to any part of this Notice and Demand, sent to me by recorded delivery within ten (10) days from your receipt of same, that I may presume your agreement to the above terms.
I will presume silence to mean acquiescence in all these matters.
Yours sincerely without ill-will, vexation or frivolity,

xxx: of the xxx family
Without any admission of any liability whatsoever, and with all Natural, Inalienable Human Rights reserved.


This is their reply:

Dear Mr xxx

I write with regard to your letter of Dec 29 2011.

BCW group acts in good faith on the information and instructions issued to us by our clients. We are passed this information on the basis that the information provided is true and correct at the time of issue. We were, at no time, advised by our client of any ongoing disputes or unresolved complaint issues. In this instance we were passed an account in your name with instructions to pursue the full balance accordingly.

I can advise that we have never alluded to having any contractual link with you in relation to this matter. Furthermore, we have never alluded to representing you in this matter nor have we sought authority to do so. Our obligation and duty in these matters is to our client for whom we act as a third party debt recovery agency.

The purpose of our letters is not to threaten. Our intention is to outline the possible outcomes available to our client should an amicable resolution remain absent from this matter.

We are data processors acting on behalf of our client Scottish Power, the data controller. We have not purchased this debt and have no need to issue any correspondence outlining our legal capacity in this matter.

Utility supply is provided and consumed under a deemed contract and no paper contract will therefore exist. Deemed contracts are not regulated by the consumer credit act 1974 ("the act"). Utility suppliers do not provide credit within the meaning of the act and cannot therefore be in breach of the act by not supplying a copy. Our client consider you to have used services under a deemed contract and relevant terms and conditions will outline the means by which our client can recover outstanding debts. Any confirmation of our capacity in this matter can be obtained from our client directly.

If you dispute liability in this matter, please provide details and documentation in support of such a contention. In the absence of this, we will continue to purse you until the account is settled, reasonably disputed or until we are instructed to withdraw by our client.

Yours sincerely blah blah blah


I know what I think of this letter, but rather than say it here, I'd like to hear some other opinions before I reply, without prejudicing the consensus with my own judgments.

Peace :)
Last edited by knightron on Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Edited to remove Account numbers and any identifiable content..;)
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Re: Scottish Power & BCW Group

Postby nunkey » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:18 pm

Hi notbanksy,, theres plenty of info on these arseholes , just look through the index. :8-): They dont try too hard , just a few letters by my own experience.. Not advice but i would probably just throw their letters straight in the bin because they will sell the debt onto another DCA ,,OF which i would do the same ,,BIN THEM ,, :shake:
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Re: Scottish Power & BCW Group

Postby notbanksy » Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:23 pm

Any other perspectives on this would be a real help :)
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Re: Scottish Power & BCW Group

Postby pedawson » Mon Jan 30, 2012 5:17 pm

Remember there is remedy in every contact, there has to be otherwise it can be construed as harassment.
In this letter they give you the remedy and I believe this is a doozie.
Utility supply is provided and consumed under a deemed contract and no paper contract will therefore exist.

It IS a contract, regardless of anything they say deemed or other and one has to be informed of the contract stipulations.
When you started your 'contract' with SP did they send you a leaflet? telling you what the conditions where.
If they did I suggest you read it. Forget the internet shit that cannot be used a s a contract.
The other thing is if the company is not regulated by the consumer credit act then they must be regulated by something else - Either find out what that is or do what I would do and go back to what existed prior to the consumer credit act - I would be surprised to find it not being =something like common law or another act - dig and dig deep, you will find it.

There is something NOT quite right with their reply regarding data controllers. SP are the data controllers and NOT this company, they have accepted information 'in good faith' but your information has been shared with another company. You need to find out - Do they handle ALL data processing for SP or do they only handle the data provided to them etc? you know what I mean.
Read the data protection act and I believe you may find a breach there too. REMEMBER they did NOT give and proof just 'In good faith', in good faith is NOT in the ACT for data protection, it is NOT in there I can assure you.
No idiot would persue something with out first getting to know the facts, not just blindly sending demand letters - this is beyond fucking stupid.

Finally DID they answer all your questions? And what did you say you would do if they did not answer your questions?

Namaste, rev;
Keep it up mate because they will eventualy just wipe it out, you will only win by wearing them down and they CANNOT take this to court if you are in negotiation. FACT.
Don't be surprised to discover that luck favours those who are prepared
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Re: Scottish Power & BCW Group

Postby knightron » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:52 pm

I would send them another Notice and Inform them of their insubstantial reply. I would also Inform them that you construe their "Threat"..we will continue to purse you until the account is settled..as a written proof of their "intent to harass" you, and you will be seeking remedy for their actions should they continue to harass you any further..

Well done for taking these Muppets on.
As The Rev pointed out; a contract is a contract, Either Deemed or written, and as such you have to agree to be part of that contract otherwise it is Null and void.!
Be sure to include the fact that you have at no time asked them for their Offered services as "Third party intervener's" or to act as your "agent" in anyway shape or form.
Withdraw any Implied rights they may think they have to do so, and sack them if they believe they have any legal right to "act on your behalf", I always include the fact that I am not at all happy about their interference in my "Private" affairs, and That I will not under any circumstances use the services they are offering.

Remember the Original company is the one you were dealing with, and you would be happy to deal with them and them alone."Conditionally" of course.. :wink: and of course in order for you to deal with anyone with regards to this matter, they have to provide Proof in the form of a "signed, sworn affidavit" and signed under full commercial liability and penalty of perjury, that you have caused them a "Provable loss" by your actions or your intent.. :thinks: :puzz:

I love messing with DCA's heads.. :ouch: :clap: I would love to be a fly on the wall of their office when they get My letters.. :giggle: :giggle:
Keep us up to scratch with your letters and their replies..Good luck and all the best.. :shake:

Please don't construe what I have written as Legal advice as I am not qualified to give it. I am just telling you what I might do or have done, if I was in the same or similar circumstances.. :shake:
ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
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Re: Scottish Power & BCW Group

Postby notbanksy » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:17 pm

knightron & pedawson, thanks very much for your replies. I certainly intend to continue my correspondence with this buffoons until they give up and pass the matter back to SP or on to some other mug.

In terms of contractual documents sent to me, I have just had a look through my records and I can't find anything. However, I became self employed a couple of months after I began buying energy from SP and I haven't kept anything prior to self employment. But I don't know if the fact that I didn't voluntarily choose SP makes a difference. I live in rented accommodation, and when I rented my previous flat, the agent passed my details onto the energy provider. At no point did I consent to any terms that I am aware of. I may have been sent a statement of terms, but I don't see how that can be proven, even if such a thing was sent unless I signed something. And if I signed something, why haven't BCW group managed to lay their hands on it?

I made no statement regarding consequences of failing to comply with the demands in my notice. I was saving that for the next letter, but wanted to see what they said.

I'm considering using the notice to cease harassment template for my next letter as they have in no way proven their standing in this matter, nor the validity of their claim. As far as I can see, 99% of their reply to my original letter is total bollocks...

But I'm still new to this, so feel free to correct me :)
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Re: Scottish Power & BCW Group

Postby notbanksy » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:27 am

Ok, about to send this letter to these *choose your own expletive*

If there's anything you think is amiss or wrong, please reply. I'll be sending by reg post tomorrow. :)

Buchanan Clark & Wells
BCW House
24 George Square
Glasgow
G2 1EG
Dear Sirs,
Regarding Reference: Case no: xxx, client ref: xxx
Thank you for your letter of 17th January, 2012. I did, however, find your letter somewhat confusing as it did not answer the points raised in my Notice dated December 29th 2011.
Furthermore, you state that you are Data Processors for Scottish Power, who remain the Data Controllers. Please tell me whether you process all data for Scottish Power, or only the data provided to you by them?
I am also informing you that your threat “We will continue to purse you until the account is settled” to be written proof of your intent to harass me. Of course, assuming that by “purse” you mean pursue. If you mean something else, please clarify this. Should you continue to harass me I will be seeking remedy for your actions.
As you have not produced any of the proofs and assurances I asked for in my Notice dated 29th December 2011, I would like to remind you of the following:
At no time have I requested, nor consented to you offering your services as third party interveners, or to act as my agent, or in any way on my behalf.
If you believe you have any legal right to act on my behalf, you are hereby fired.
I am unhappy about your interference in my private affairs, and at no time will I ever use the services you are offering.
May I also remind you that I have already requested that you do not wish to be contacted by telephone. Should you chose to do so, you will be in breach of the Wireless Telegraphy Act (1949). Any future telephone contact may be reported to both Trading Standards and the Office of Fair Trading.
I will presume silence to mean acquiescence in all the matters raised in my Notice dated 29th December 2011.
Yours sincerely without ill-will, vexation or frivolity,



xxx: of the xxx family
Without any admission of any liability whatsoever, and with all Natural, Inalienable Human Rights reserved.
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Re: Scottish Power & BCW Group

Postby notbanksy » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:50 am

pedawson,

Is this the 'internet shit' you're referring to? http://www.scottishpower.co.uk/legal/terms-and-conditions.aspx

Thanks :)
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Re: Scottish Power & BCW Group

Postby knightron » Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:31 pm

Not bad at all bud..let us know how you get on with it buddy..;)
ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
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Re: Scottish Power & BCW Group

Postby notbanksy » Thu Feb 23, 2012 11:35 am

Have received another reply from BCW...

Dear Mr XXX

I write with regard to your letter received Feb 13 2012 issued in relation to the aforementioned account.

Your comments in the letter above have been duly noted. I can only reiterate the comments made in our response of January 17 2012, our stance remains unchanged.

It is with regret that our letter contained a spelling error however I thank you for bringing this to my attention.

Please do not hesitate to contact us on xxxxxxxxx should you require any further assistance. You can also email on xxxxxxxxxx

Yours sincerely


Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks :)
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