Virgin Late Payment Charges

Virgin Late Payment Charges

Postby sosii » Fri Jun 11, 2010 6:03 pm

Hi all,

One charge of £10, not a lot at the end of the day but I'm damned if I'll just take it, slight financial hiccup which meant I had to juggle things and had to cancel the direct debit. The irony is that RBS would only have charged £5 if the dd failed.

I sent them this via their online complaints.

Date 11th June 2010

Notice of Intent

Notice to Principal is notice to agent; Notice to agent is notice to principal.


Dear Anne Curran

In a recent automated letter REF: "11EDD\RNE1_2904\1485" dated the 9th of June 2010 you appear to state that you intend to apply a "late payment charge" of £10 to my next bill.

You will provide me, within 7 days, of documentary proof in substance that these charges accurately represent the ACTUAL COSTS incurred by Virgin Media in the processing of this account.

Failure to do so will be taken as absolute and total agreement that these charges are wholly punitive in nature, and, as such, are unfair and unenforceable.

Should Virgin Media then fail to remove them from the account; further action will be taken against the individuals responsible.

Yours sincerely
Kevin Steel, expressly reserving all rights and responsibilities while subrogating none.


This I modified from another user who had success with BT, I got the usual automated response and then this:

From: Virgin Media Web Team [webteam@virginmedia.co.uk]
Sent: 11 June 2010 17:02
To: xxxxxxx@VIRGINMEDIA.COM
Subject: Re: Virgin Media Helpsite Webform - Complaint Form
(KMM40761845I15977L0KM)

Dear Mr xxxxx


Thanks for your letter received about late payment charges of £10.00.

On the 6 June 2007 Ofcom launched a review, over the whole telecommunication industry,
of additional charges that can be added to customers’ accounts.

Additional charges can be added by service provides to customers accounts above those
they already pay for the service. These additional charges can be due to a number of
factors, including:

* Not paying by direct debit;
* Late payment;
* Having service restored after it has been restricted or suspended following late
payment; or
* Early termination fees (terminating a contract within the specified minimum contract
period).

After receiving a number of complaints about these additional charges, Ofcom have decided to launch a
review. They looked into a number of factors regarding these charges including customers’ awareness of
them and their attitudes to these charges. The review considered whether the charges or their levels are
unfair and what action, if any, is necessary.

We have given Ofcom, the regulatory body for Virgin Media, a breakdown of our charges
and at the moment they are happy with the current charge. Therefore we do not have to
divulge this business sensitive information.


If you have any other general queries please speak to our Customer services department for
free on 150 from a virgin line or 0845 454 1111 from any other line. They're our first port of
call for our customers and will be happy to answer any queries or questions you have. You'll
be happy to know that they're available from 8am -10pm.

Thank you for taking the time to write to us.


Yours sincerely


Scott Harrison
Customer Concern
Virgin Media


Virgin made of sterner stuff than BT I guess.
So they think that because ofcom has okayed the charges, or not objected to them that I go away and stop bothering them? Not bloody likely.

So I'm sending of a little word to Mr Harrison just shortly (any ideas greatly appreciated), they haven't rebutted my notice in substance, not even close.

Cheers
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Re: Virgin Late Payment Charges

Postby no_ta » Fri Jun 11, 2010 7:29 pm

I had a similar charge from BT regarding a late payment charge, they quoted Oftel, but I told them that they would have to show contractual proof where I had agreed to pay such a charge, they huffed and puffed a little but in the end had to remove the charge.

Is this a case of putting the burden of proof on them? Refuse to pay.
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Re: Virgin Late Payment Charges

Postby sosii » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:50 pm

Cheers for that no_ta,

I'm not even that bothered with this really, having sorted out all but one financial issue I'm bored, so really I'm picking a little fight! One apologetic call to customer services would probably been enough as I've been a good boy.

I'm actually depressed to no longer get all that mail anymore, wife thinks I'm nuts getting excited over some little charge or that. Can't really argue with that.

:blush:
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Re: Virgin Late Payment Charges

Postby Revs » Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:34 am

As far as I know they can only charge you the amount it cost them in admin in dealing with this. I can't see how that could be more than a few quid myself, if anything. I'm sure it'll all be automated anyhow, so the only real cost to them would be the paper and postage, which surely can't be more than £1 or so. Unless, of course, there's something in the contract saying otherwise.
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Re: Virgin Late Payment Charges

Postby sosii » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:17 am

No, checked, they wouldn't do that anyway, would they? Not if they wanted to change it so as to maintain profit margins in a rapidly devaluing fiat bubble.

Bring on the crash! Get on with it I say, this slow death all around us is a pain.

:peace:
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Re: Virgin Late Payment Charges

Postby Veronica » Sat Jun 12, 2010 3:00 pm

sosii wrote:I'm actually depressed to no longer get all that mail anymore, ...

I know how you feel ...

I've been forced to start a Commercial Lien on Collect Services Limited's 3 Directors ... because they've now threatened me once too often. (But if I hadn't been so bored, I probably wouldn't have bothered)
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Re: Virgin Late Payment Charges

Postby sosii » Tue Jun 22, 2010 2:48 pm

Been side tracked with family woes (women, can't live with them... can't live with them...)

This was what I thought might be a good opportunity to cure notice. Any input peeps?

Notice of Fault and Opportunity to Cure
Notice to Principal is notice to agent; Notice to agent is notice to principal.

Dear Scott Harrison

Pay close attention Scott, this is a notice, it informs your company.I am not in a good mood with Virgin Media as it is, having already been shorted the sum of £60 (which will be brought up separately, very soon) by your company in regards to referrals that they “have no record of”.

In reference to your comment on my notice which was issued in response to automated letter REF: "11EDD\RNE1_2904\1485" dated the 9th of June 2010 you appear to state that you intend to apply a "late payment charge" of £10 to my next bill.

As to Ofcom, I care not for their ‘opinion’ as to your charges and ‘fairness’, useless bunch I’m afraid, most certainly not interested in looking out for the individuals ‘rights’, I am well aware of how to go about asserting my rights through lawful clam. That organization supposedly regulates your company to the ‘letter of the law’, does that then mean they allow you to ignore the law as stated quite clearly in the bill of rights on unfair charges? I.e. you are not allowed. I do not consent to Virgin Media applying a charge of any kind; any authority or perceived permission your company may have had to do so is hereby revoked, if I had granted it, it would have been as an honest mistake based on the presented facts.

Now, let us get down to the brass tacks as it were. Your reasoning for your companies continued charging seems to be summed up as ‘because they said so!’ in regards to Ofcom, now other than being a little immature it fails utterly to rebut my notice with anything other than hearsay. More relevant however is that why on earth would I trust Ofcom? Have you even bothered to look at who is running it? The term ‘revolving door between industry and regulation’ comes to mind.

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/about/csg/ofcom_board/biogs/
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/about/csg/ofcom_board/disclosable_interests/
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/about/csg/exe_committee/membership/
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/about/csg/operations/

A veritable who’s who of corporate and state interest who love to crow about their affiliations, so thanks but no thanks, I’ll trust my own common sense to look out for MY interests and rights. I mean good grief man! Look how many are currently the beneficiary of BT pensions, and all I really need point out is that Ofcom is a quagmire of Telecoms industry interests. Only the most ignorant of consumers would I place any faith in this corporate entity to look after their ‘rights’.

In your previous correspondence with failed to rebut my notice in substance so it stands, and for the record Scott, regarding you comment:
“We have given Ofcom, the regulatory body for Virgin Media, a breakdown of our charges and at the moment
they are happy with the current charge. Therefore we do not have to divulge this business sensitive information.”


Ofcom do not represent me, they have never had or ever will have power of attorney to act in my stead in regards to my rights, do not dismiss my LAWFUL notice out of hand. Should you have any concerns please consult your legal department and please let them know that should you fail to comply with removing the unlawful charge or providing me in substance a proof of Virgin Media’s losses. I hereby put my account into dispute, I will maintain my agreed service charges for services rendered but will withhold payment on ‘charges’ and this is to include your direct debit charge.

Simple solution here, waive the charges, I want my services and you want my continued payments. Virgin Media are well within their right to recoup losses incurred, but to do this you need either my acquiescence or a judicial order based on a legal claim of right and proof of loss. I’d love nothing better than to see your company attempt that one in court; it’d be fun. You call the information on your charges "business sensitive", this means secrecy because you don't want people to realise how little your costs really are, please don't make me take this to the small claims court, I'd be almost embarrassed to do so for something so trivial.

You have a further 7 days to either provide documentary proof in substance that these charges accurately represent the ACTUAL COSTS incurred by Virgin Media in the processing of this account, remove the charges altogether or be subject to legal action.
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Re: Virgin Late Payment Charges

Postby sosii » Fri Jul 16, 2010 1:18 am

Aye up sovereigns,

Been a tad troubled on a personal front of late, so just paid the service charge ONLY on the bill, not the charges, but never followed through on the notice. Yeah, my bad.

So of course the lovelies at Virgin Media Payment Limited sent me a love note. Informing me of yet ANOTHER late payment charge, for not paying the original late payment charge! I wasn't late!!! just incomplete in payment at best, even to them. So have revised my aforementioned notice to the following:


Notice Of Conditional Acceptance Upon Clarification
Notice to Principal is notice to agent; Notice to agent is notice to principal.

Regarding Account Number: xxxxxxx-0x
Virgin Media Payments Limited
160 Great Portland Street
London
W1W 5QA

Dear Sirs

Please pay very close attention, this is a notice, it informs your company. I am not in a good mood with Virgin Media as it is, having already been shorted the sum of £60 (which will be brought up separately, very soon) by your company in regards to customer referrals that they “have no record of”.

In reference to your comment on my notice which was issued in response to automated letter REF: "11EDD\RNE1_2904\1485" dated the 9th of June 2010, and another dated 8th July 2010, you appear to state that you intend to apply a "late payment charges" of £10 to my next bill.

Now, let us get down to the brass tacks as it were. Your reasoning for your companies continued charging could be par-phrased as ‘because they said so!’ in regards to Ofcom’s directives, now other than being a little immature it fails utterly to rebut my original notice (KMM40752172I15977L0KM) with anything other than hearsay. More relevant however is that why on earth would I trust Ofcom? Have you even bothered to look at who is running it? The term ‘revolving door between industry and regulation’ comes to mind.

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/about/csg/ofcom_board/biogs/
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/about/csg/ofcom_board/disclosable_interests/
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/about/csg/exe_committee/membership/
http://www.ofcom.org.uk/about/csg/operations/

A veritable who’s who of corporate and state interest who love to crow about their diverse affiliations, so thanks but no thanks, I’ll trust my own common sense to look out for MY interests and rights. I mean good grief, look how many are currently the beneficiary of BT pensions, and all I really need point out is that Ofcom is a quagmire of Telecoms industry interests. Only the most ignorant of consumers would I place any faith in this corporate entity to look after their ‘rights’, of which I am most certainly not.

As to Ofcom; I care not for their ‘opinion’ as to your charges and ‘fairness’, useless bunch I’m afraid, most certainly, as already stated, not interested in looking out for the individuals ‘rights’, I am well aware of how to go about asserting my rights through lawful claim. That organization supposedly regulates your company; does that then mean they allow you to ignore the law as stated quite clearly in the bill of rights on unfair charges? I.e. you are not allowed except under proper justification. Legal maxim: ‘That all Grants and Promises of Fines and Forfeitures of particular persons before Conviction are illegal and void’. Can you quote any legislative statute ‘law’ upon which you are bound that supersedes these?

I do not consent to Virgin Media applying an unjustified or unsubstantiated charge of any kind; any authority or perceived permission your company may have had to do so is hereby revoked, if I had granted it contractually, it would have been as an honest mistake based on the presented facts.
The web-team’s response on the 11th of June; this failed to rebut my notice in substance, so it stands, and for the record, to Scott Harrison, regarding his comment:

“We have given Ofcom, the regulatory body for Virgin Media, a breakdown of our charges and at the moment they are happy with the current charge. Therefore we do not have to divulge this business sensitive information.”

What is your “breakdown”, why do you not publish it if it is considered fair, what is “happy”, is this a legal term, or merely an opinion? Is this really considered a suitable response to a point of law?

Ofcom do not represent me, they have never had or ever will have power of attorney to act in my stead in regards to my rights or standing. Indeed, they themselves, in an appeal tribunal in March of 2009 (case 1089-1092/3/3/07) stated they have only a “unique quasi-judicial role”, and in fact in that ruling it stated the following:

“The “gains from trade” test used by OFCOM was seriously flawed and was not an appropriate methodology for assessing the reasonableness of the prices.”

This is just an example of a deeply flawed and biased system, keep it, I don’t want it or even need it.

I hereby put any and all ‘charges and/or fees’ upon my aforementioned account into dispute, I will maintain my agreed service charges for services rendered but will withhold payment on ‘charges’ and this is to include your direct debit charge. As you will see from my last payment I fully intend to meet my contractual obligation to pay for services rendered, and I conditionally accept liability to your ‘charges’ on provision you supply documentary proof, in substance, that these charges accurately represent the ACTUAL COSTS incurred by Virgin Media in the processing of this account or the removal of the charges altogether or be subject to legal action by whatever lawful means available. Any unwarranted disruption or cessation of my services will be considered actionable under law as the subject ‘charges’ are in dispute, not the services rendered and payable.

In addition, applying charges in the future for “late payments”, upon a disputed subject is illegal, so you best not do that any more either. I reserve the right not to pay these ‘charges’.

Simple solution here, waive these ‘charges’, I want my services and you want my continued payments. Virgin Media are well within their right to recoup actual losses incurred, but to do this you need either my acquiescence or a judicial order based on a legal claim of right and proof of loss. I’d love nothing better than to see your company attempt that one in court; it’d be fun. You call the information on your charges "business sensitive", this means secrecy because you don't want people to realise how little your costs really are, please don't make me take this to the small claims court (at your expense of course), I'd be almost embarrassed to do so for something so trivial.

You have a further 14 days to either provide documentary proof in substance that these charges accurately represent the ACTUAL COSTS incurred by Virgin Media in the processing of this account, or the removal of the charges altogether. Non substantive answers or no reply will be taken as Non Response and accordingly it will be held by estoppel/public bar that No Proof exists and that shall stand as my truth.

Yours sincerely

By: sosii (digital)

Without any admission liability whatsoever, waiving any and all benefits / privileges both offered or implied, while expressly reserving all My unalienable rights and responsibilities and waiving none.

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Re: Virgin Late Payment Charges

Postby sosii » Wed Jul 21, 2010 4:24 pm

Result, complete climb down, nice guy called JAZZ let me know.

Wasn't that nice of him.

I wonder if it was quoting the ruling from the tribunal against Ofcom that did it? Might be something to look up, are all these 'regulatory bodies' regarded as "quasi-judicial", hmm? Might be worth further investigation.

:8-):
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Re: Virgin Late Payment Charges

Postby huntingross » Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:44 pm

Sorry for not chipping in earlier sosii, but the notice above is a piece of art and the had the desired result too....well done.
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