utility bills and contracts

utility bills and contracts

Postby the trojan » Fri May 07, 2010 6:58 pm

So ,i had a guy at the door to offer a changeover in gas and electric suppliers,so after I realised he was quite an open and nice guy,I thought I would quiz him a little bit.my bits are in bold.

I asked him who could cut off your electric and gas supply if you cancelled all contracts with the companies who collect the money,ie eon npower hydro etc.

He said if you have kids under sixteen they cannot cut off your supply.
So again if I have no contract with anyone to pay any tarriffs ,bills etc, who will come to my door.
He said well it would be the company who own all the gas and electricity ,the main supplier.
And if I dont have a contract with them to pay them or any agreement to supply me ,what would happen then,remembering
that i have kids under the age of sixteen ?

well they would probably take you to court.
But I dont have a contract with them ,or anybody else.
And I reckon they are not able to make contracts with any of the public,hence you have all these companies who collect the money.

A wee light went on in the guys head and he said wow,I think you are right.nothing could be done.

now if the main supplier who owns the gas and electric would offer me a contract which cuts out the middlemen,I am sure it would be a hell of a lot cheaper,and this kind of action would possibly force their hand.
hhhhhhhmmmmmm. any thoughts people.?
the trojan
Posts: 168
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 12:57 am

Re: utility bills and contracts

Postby squark » Wed May 11, 2011 8:23 pm

If they offer you a contract...just say no. Then you have fuel supplies which cant be cut off and no-one with any claim on you.
I am very new to all this though.

I'm dealing with an N Power utility bill. They have used 3 different companies to chase payment. (I scared the first two off very easily, like this.

Dear Buchanan Clark and Wells,

Regarding your letter dated 23/03/11, BCW Ref.No.B..........

I am not aware of any previous dealings between myself and B.C.W. I can find no evidence of a contract between us. This seems to be a third party intervention in my commercial affairs on your part. If you had assumed my permission to intervene, you are mistaken. If you do have a lawful claim please provide evidence of such.

Beyond this I will have to treat these interactions between us as commercial and apply my scale of charges. They are £250 per hour or part of. Meetings are charged at £2500. Expenses at cost plus 10%.

I would appreciate it if you would please remove my information from your data bases as I have not give you permission to use it.

Many thanks

They didnt come back to me.

Got lazy on the 3rd lot of chasers, so they knocked on my door. I gave the guy a meter reading and some friendly chat, friendly on my part (his vibe wasn't so good!??)

It pissed me off that they pass my info round so widely and freely, so ive sent Npower Notice. Like this:

10th May 2011


Dear Mark Howell
Ref. A/C no.........
I have a third company (other than N power) contacting me regarding my dealings with N Power. This has become troublesome to me, you pass my information around much too freely for my comfort. Also I made attempts to arrange payment by telephone on more than one occasion. I was offered a payment plan beyond my means. I had no option but to reject it. My counter offer was to pay as and when I was able. This was an honorable offer on my part. You rejected that. Now I find additional charges added to my account. They are inappropriate in the circumstances. I made an lawful offer of payment which you rejected and now you charge me for failing to make arrangement to pay. We are all equal in the eyes of the law. A Bank of England banknote is mearly a promise to pay, your rejection of my promise to pay is discriminatory.

I hereby remove my consent for you to pass on my data and information to any third party. I wish for only written comunication from N Power themselves in dealing with these matters.
I remove any assumed or implied right for you to obstruct my changing fuel supplier.
I remove any implied or assumed right to enter my property.
I remove any implied or assumed acceptance of further charges untill proof of claim is established.
I request a full and final, signed and lawful invoice so settlement may be made. Not a statement of account or summary, but a lawful invoice.(Bills of Exchange Act 1882)
I request proof of claim that a lawful debt exists.

Until proof of claim is established my commercial scale of charges is as follows:
£250 per hour
£2500 for meetings (including on the doorstep)

I reserve all of my rights under common law.
Notification of principal is notification of agent. (So Collections Direct, Buchanon Clark and Wells and Secus Ltd etc are hereby notified)

Without prejudice, frivolity, or vexation
Simon:of the Taylor family (Agent for the legal fiction)
And the Lord spake unto his people, he said "Get Off MY Bloody Land!"
And the people gave unto the Lord, freely they gave him The Finger
Posts: 326
Joined: Tue May 10, 2011 5:41 pm
Location: Stoke on Trent

Re: utility bills and contracts

Postby frogmanbrabs » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:05 pm

I decided to change my broadband supplier because of a cheaper deal and more download. I was with BT on an 18 month contract and I have 5 months of the contract left. I phoned them to ask them what the charges would be if I ended the contract early and was told by their operator that there would be No Charge but I just needed to give them 1 months notice. This was acceptable and so I contacted the new provider (Talk Talk) and told them I wanted to go ahead with the deal from the 17th February which is the first date BT told me I could leave. I received a text today off BT telling me to call them on their freefone number and check to see if there were any charges. When I called I was told that there would be a cancellation fee of £51.72. I told the operator that I had already been told that there was no charge. He apologised that his colleague had given me the wrong information and so I asked him if he could send me a copy of the signed contract. He then said there was no contract as it was done over the internet and I told him that for a contract to be valid it had to be signed by both parties and have Full Disclosure. He tried to tell me that he knew what he was talking about and told me that I would have to pay the cancellation charge plus the final monthly bill. If I wait until June I can move without charge but I'm not certain the deal with Talk Talk will still be available then. The deal with Talk Talk will save me £12 / month. Do BT have any claim to this cancellation charge?
An Open Mind can take you on a journey to anywhere.
User avatar
Posts: 208
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:04 pm
Location: Planet Earth

Re: utility bills and contracts

Postby knightron » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:34 pm

My Advice is find another supplier mate TalkTalk are the worst EVER Broadband supplier..I am a desktop service technician and was told that My computer (intel quad core with 8 gig of ram) was not powerful enough to run their Broadband.. (I very nearly pissed myself laughing at the bastard) I know BT are more expensive and their customer services are shite to say the least, But compared to TalkTalk they are The dogs bollocks.!

I would send BT a Notice asking for a Full and true bill in commerce, and in order for you to pay anything with regards to a cancellation fee (You are Not refusing to pay anything that you are lawfully obliged to) they need to show you that you have caused them a Provable loss..
Good luck with it mate and let us know how you get on with it.. :shake:
ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
User avatar
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:51 pm

Re: utility bills and contracts

Postby pedawson » Wed Feb 01, 2012 6:52 pm

You are correct to state that there is no contract. Because there isn't.
It could be argued that there is a verbal contract, and in deed there is. It works both ways so we cannot be too hasty.
Your original agreement was that you stay with the company (BT, don't know why fucking shite BT but Hey) for 18 months and if you were to wish to cancel the contract you would have to pay either all the remaining contractual fees or pro-rata to that date; 1 month from cancellation.

All things being equal, this is a fair contract, you got what you wanted and now have found another supplier.
You will, in all possibility, have had to supply your details to BT in order for them to create an account and will (should) have received a welcome pack for you to read at your leisure. If you didn't then something at BT has gone horribly wrong because this is usually automatic. The info you get will include the terms and conditions of the contract you verbally agreed to - and - it will be verbally agreed to - Notice to principal is notice to agent - The tech guy and installer is the agent you allowed him to do it. And this is what they will use if you decide to call them on the contract.

Not what you wished to hear, I know. However.
This is what I would do, not suggesting for a moment that you should do the same.
Contact them and state you are unhappy with the cancellation fee and ask what they are willing to do regarding the remaining period.
Let them know that as from {Date} their services are no longer required and that the cancellation fee proposed is not what was agreed initially and in this case you decline the offer of payment for the service cancellation - Please look back in your records and confirm the original cancellation agreement.

[I believe they will find that they are charging today's costs for cancellation and not the pro rata cancellation fee as initially proposed, usual trick]
There offer to cancel the contract is an offer and as such should be negotiable, however until the negotiations are agreed - no further fees or costs or services - or products should be charged - offered or provided. Refer original documentation (add this to the letter, it always gets them anoyed and they will not look and they will not find anything - because there is nothing there.)
Contracts of this nature rather depend on the website updates and they are updated as and when the site is updated -Flick of a button) no one ever complaint that there contract has changed.

*If you really want to get shitty with them, you can do as I did (and I closed an insurance company down in Cape Town SA) the original contract is what you agreed to and NOT anything they are offering now - you HAVE to send a contract and it HAS to be signed regardless of the contract being word of mouth or not and if they change something in the contract YOU have to agree and sign that you agree.*
So if they changed the contract - they are assuming you have agreed and the original contract is no longer applicable.
The best way to do this is to get them to agree that the terms of the contract has changed since you signed up and that THAT contract is NOW in force.
If they agree to that you have them if they don't - just get shitty with them as in above*.

Keep the correspondence up and let them know in no uncertain terms that you will not leave the battle field until you have what you want - and that is 'NO charge for cancellation'.

Contradictory post, but I am coming from what they 'think' and what 'you want'. Clash of the titans but it is in there interest to just tell you to fuck off and don't bother them any-more, plus they know that you know that if you continue to negotiate they do NOT have cause to take you to court. It costs you a stamp or two but it costs them salary for the time it takes to deal with you..

Namaste, rev;
Don't be surprised to discover that luck favours those who are prepared
User avatar
Posts: 1124
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:17 pm

Re: utility bills and contracts

Postby Dipsy » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:45 am

Be aware not all contracts require a "meeting of the minds" and "wet ink signatures" etc this is a dangerous "freeman" style of thinking to fall into to. Contracts may be IMPLIED or EXPLICIT. A verbal contract is STILL a contract just a tad harder to prove. For example when BT said you only need to pay one month notice to get out of an 18 month contract remember contracts are mostly negotiable. They can be changed if BOTH parties agree. Utilities and internet service do this ALL THE TIME!! On this point you asked BT how much it cost to get out of an 18 month contract. Their offer was "just one month payment" . You can ACCEPT or DECLINE the OFFER and should have insisted in writing. Technically another member of staff can not say that is wrong as you could have re-contracted at that time. By arguing you are dishonour and have re-contracted back to the old terms. This happens in court when you slide back into the courts jurisdiction simply stating the wrong thing at the wrong time. You can of course use CONDITIONAL ACCEPTANCE to get out of a harsh contract but please be reasonable about this stuff. If you still got £155 on an O2 phone contract to pay is is really worth the hassle of all the paper work,court filings, notary presentments, and a lien for a million pounds!! I think you will just look like a real Dick to even try! LOL

Example Barclaycard wants to put credit card interest rates up from 22% to 24% so they send a NOTICE usually 28 days lets say effective 1st March 2012. Silence is DEADLY as it assumes Acquiescent!! They send you a NOTICE letting you know something is changing. You are provided an opportunity to accept or cancel your contract if the conditions change or challenge the change. See notices sent out all the time from EBAY, paypal, Google etc. Utility contracts are mostly IMPLIED contracts. They supply and you CONSUME and by consumption you have agreed to all terms and conditions. When British Gas wants to change prices they send you a NOTICE ...."Hello your gas price its going up another 10% in April" you say nothing you ACCEPT by default. You CAN renegotiate!! Most companies now have leavers claims dept that will give you special offers if you stay with them instead. ISP's Cable and SKY etc can all give out very nice deals if you speak to them. 50% discounts or free months are not unusual.

Online ordering alike tick the box to order usually means you are signing electronically and agree to waive your rights to some degree. Lawfully you might be able to challenge this but legally its 100% acceptable to ease on-line trading. It is after all a 2 way street. Can you imagine using ebay but unable to buy or sell unless you both sign original wet ink contracts with EVERYTHING you buy or sell and wait a week for the post to swap paper contracts????
Posts: 187
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:58 pm

Re: utility bills and contracts

Postby frogmanbrabs » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:19 am

Thanks Folks for the advice. I think I'll see out the contract with BT and then see if I can re-negotiate a better deal with them or someone else.BTW Just as I was typing this I had a phone call from some Indian sounding woman claiming to be from Windows and telling me that there was a problem with malware on my computer. She asked me to turn on my computer (which was already on) and she would sort it out for me. Dodgy or what?
An Open Mind can take you on a journey to anywhere.
User avatar
Posts: 208
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:04 pm
Location: Planet Earth

Re: utility bills and contracts

Postby knightron » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:34 am

ahahahahah I get them all the time I hope you didn't let her in to it.!
ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
User avatar
Posts: 319
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:51 pm

Re: utility bills and contracts

Postby frogmanbrabs » Thu Feb 02, 2012 12:48 pm

No Knightron of course not. I asked her if she would like my bank details and date of birth and everything else personal to me before you start and hung up.
What pisses me off is that about 6 months ago I registered with the tps service and I still get these dodgy calls. I've had people claiming to be from my bank and then ask me to confirm my bank details to which I answer you tell me what they are and I'll tell you if you're right or not. I like to keep the3m on the phone and waste their time cause they're paying for the call. But why do they all seem to speak with an Indian accent cor blimey goodness gracious.
An Open Mind can take you on a journey to anywhere.
User avatar
Posts: 208
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 7:04 pm
Location: Planet Earth

Re: utility bills and contracts

Postby pitano1 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:15 pm

because they are` calling from india. :giggle:

to be serious..i`m with talk talk,and for the last few weeks,my
broadband has been a joke`worse than dialup at times`.

had one of their techy`s round,and he puts the blame on to the
exchange which of course is owned by bt.

the package i have is advertised as up to 20 meg ps.

i did some speed checks,and the worse one came in at under.1meg.
the whole thing is very unstable..ie i`m rarely able to stream
any vids etc.
in case you have any questions about comp.
ram 8gig
1 tb hardrive
hd radion 6.800 graphics card
n.wireless connection.150 mbs.
asus xonar dx soundcard.

any thoughts.eg..can i get bt to do anything.?
or maybe talktalk.
pitano1 :puzz:
If the machine of government is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law.
Henry David Thoreau
Posts: 1157
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 1:38 pm
Location: on the land


Return to Utility Bills

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests