Bonds - Creation and Monetising

This includes Live Birth Trusts (LBT), and "Accepted for value" (A4V)

Bonds - Creation and Monetising

Postby huntingross » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:44 am

I've been curious about this for a while, but know so little about it.

FMOTL Michael seems to have the skills.....Michael, could you give some pointers please....
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Re: Bonds - Creation and Monetising

Postby The Freeman-on-the-Land known as Michael » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:05 pm

i am not certain what you are asking of me. what is it that you want me to share?
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Re: Bonds - Creation and Monetising

Postby huntingross » Wed Jul 22, 2009 11:14 pm

Hi Michael, this is from the other thread and wondering what the mechanics is to create a Bond and how to monetise it.

I've always come un-stuck when I start thinking about securities...bottom line is I don't understand how 'they' seemingly create these things out of thin air.

For example, if you lodge a bond with who ever it is in the Road Traffic Act, you don't need to carry 3rd party insurance....the Bond value is £500k
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Re: Bonds - Creation and Monetising

Postby The Freeman-on-the-Land known as Michael » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:15 pm

From Bouviers:

BILL OBLIGATORY. An instrument in common use and too well known to be misunderstood. It is a bond without condition, sometimes called a single bill, and differs in nothing from a promissory note, but the seal which is affixed to it. 2 Serg. & Rawle, 115. See Read's Pleaders' Assistant, 256, for a declaration setting forth such a bill. Also West's Symboleography, s. 100, 101, for the forms both with and without a penalty.


Since there is no money of substance, we only have various specie of debt securities, more commonly known as promises to pay. a bond, according to the legal definition "differs in nothing from a promise to pay".

PROMISSORY NOTE, contracts. A written promise to pay a certain sum of money, at a future time, unconditionally. 7 Watts & S. 264; 2 Humph. R. 143; 10 Wend. 675; Minor, R. 263; 7 Misso. 42; 2 Cowen, 536; 6 N. H. Rep. 364; 7 Vern. 22. A promissory note differs from a mere acknowledgment of debt, without any promise to pay, as when the debtor gives his creditor an I 0 U. (q. v.) See 2 Yerg. 50; 15 M. & W. 23. But see 2 Humph. 143; 6 Alab. R. 373. In its form it usually contains a promise to pay, at a time therein expressed, a sum of money to a certain person therein named, or to his order, for value received. It is dated and signed by the maker. It is never under seal.

2. He who makes the promise is called the maker, and he to whom it is made is the payee. Bayley on Bills, 1; 3 Kent, Com, 46.

3. Although a promissory note, in its original shape, bears no resemblance to a bill of exchange; yet, when indorsed, it is exactly similar to one; for then it is an order by the indorser of the note upon the maker to pay to the indorsee. The indorser is as it were the drawer; the maker, the acceptor; and the indorsee, the payee. 4 Burr. 669; 4 T. R. 148; Burr. 1224.

4. Most of the rules applicable to bills of exchange, equally affect promissory notes. No particular form is requisite to these instruments; a promise to deliver the money, or to be accountable for it, or that the payee shall have it, is sufficient. Chit. on Bills, 53, 54.

5. There are two principal qualities essential to the validity of a note; first, that it be payable at all events, not dependent on any contingency; 20 Pick. 132; 22 Pick. 132 nor payable out of any particular fund. 3 J. J. Marsh. 542; 5 Pike, R. 441; 2 Blackf. 48; 1 Bibb, 503; 1 S. M. 393; 3 J. J. Marsh. 170; 3 Pick. R. 541; 4 Hawks, 102; 5 How. S. C. R. 382. And, secondly, it is required that it be for the payment of money only; 10 Serg. & Rawle, 94; 4 Watts, R. 400; 11 Verm. R. 268; and not in bank notes, though it has been held differently in the state of New York. 9 Johns. R. 120; 19 Johns. R. 144.

6. A promissory note payable to order or bearer passes by indorsement, and although a chose in action, the holder may bring suit on it in his own name. Although a simple contract, a sufficient consideration is implied from the nature of the instrument. Vide 5 Com. Dig. 133, n., 151, 472 Smith on Merc. Law, B. 3, c. 1; 4 B. & Cr. 235 7 D. P. C. 598; 8 D. P. C. 441 1 Car. & Marsh. 16. Vide Bank note; Note; Reissuable note.


If we stand under the legal maxim, all are equal before the law, motor insurance is not necessary in my opinion simply because policy enforcement officers and ambulance drivers do not have to have it, mainly due to the fact that they can't find an insurance company that is willing to offer a policy, such are the inherent dangers of those occupations. however, it would also be feasible to create a bond that indemnified any and all concerned and affected parties against any and all potential losses, injury and damages, provided that the instrument was perfectly formed.
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Re: Bonds - Creation and Monetising

Postby Farmer » Fri Jul 24, 2009 12:30 am

Hi Michael,

If we look at the current financial fiasco that has been created by the bankers, central banks are creating debt by the creation of bonds by governments, and loaning this to the commercial banks. The banks have decided to not loan this out. However, this is not monetised until the banks do eventual loan this out. So would it also not be the case that a bond is monetised when it has been passed to an entity.


It appears that in the US, judges, lawyers, police, and possibly more, have a bond that can be arrested. This bond is also underwritten by underwriters. Do you have any knowledge of this and whether it is the same type of animal. It would be good to know whether this is the case in the UK because the threat of writing a warrant for the arrest of their bond turns judges and lawyers white when this is done when they can be shown they have not acted correctly in court.
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Re: Bonds - Creation and Monetising

Postby huntingross » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:51 pm

Michael
If we stand under the legal maxim, all are equal before the law, motor insurance is not necessary in my opinion simply because policy enforcement officers and ambulance drivers do not have to have it, mainly due to the fact that they can't find an insurance company that is willing to offer a policy, such are the inherent dangers of those occupations. however, it would also be feasible to create a bond that indemnified any and all concerned and affected parties against any and all potential losses, injury and damages, provided that the instrument was perfectly formed.

Agreed, and a Bond would sound like the best way to do this.

So if I created a £5m Bond for example, I would just write up a promissory note?!! What is the security for this, in the event that it was required to be monetised (drawn upon)....where would the £5m come from (see I did say I don't get this stuff)

Farmer, this video talks alot about seizing the judges bond and police officers bonds, it was interesting to me, aswell as having some Notary stuff at the end.....Shrout
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Re: Bonds - Creation and Monetising

Postby city boy 5705 » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:42 pm

i have the same issues/lack of understanding
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Re: Bonds - Creation and Monetising

Postby consumerpada » Sat Jul 25, 2009 7:44 pm

"a bond is a debt security, in which the authorized issuer owes the holders a debt and, depending on the terms of the bond, is obliged to pay interest (the coupon) and/or to repay the principal at a later date, termed maturity or a bond is a formal contract to repay borrowed money with interest at fixed intervals."

..........That's from wikidpedia I use that definition because i know they won't lie about what a bond is ( for some reason :psst: )...........

Its basically a sworn promise to pay bonded (by your autograph) to a surety.

If the banks were at all honest they would accept our bonds. They monitise.

Lets say I go to the bank with a sealed bond for 300k. ( promise) They go and cash that (somehow, still not sure how they do it yet...I'm sure they know though)

I say to them, that's cool, when I need some I'll come for it.

In the mean time, the bank are making money on interest, holding my money (I don't deal in interest, dont need it, they can have it its good business for them)

So, most people go, Nooooooo it cant work, people will take the piss!!! ( so dont let them know they can promise/bond money) Of course some would..but lots wouldn't because you and I know, you can't just take, you have to return value, for what you take, that's the law.

So that's my common law explanation of what a bond is. simple. :yawn:
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Re: Bonds - Creation and Monetising

Postby pitano1 » Sun Jul 26, 2009 6:47 pm

huntingross wrote:I've been curious about this for a while, but know so little about it.

FMOTL Michael seems to have the skills.....Michael, could you give some pointers please....


i tooo...am curious about this subject since i was fined £170....by my local magi`s court....lol. for fpn.

to be serious,
sometime ago i read in a news paper of a guy who was fined,and for whatever reason wrote out his payment on toilet paper,and this was accepted by the court.

now we know that the notes we use [so called money ] are no better.

i have loads of toilet paper,but not many promisery notes.
it is my intention to pay this mugging with something !!!,and if they squeel,ask them to prove my note is not as good as any other.

i was thinking,along lines of,n.i.s number,please pay the bearer,or do i put i promise to pay.

any thoughts? :peace: :peace:
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Re: Bonds - Creation and Monetising

Postby Farmer » Sun Jul 26, 2009 7:41 pm

pitano1 wrote:to be serious,
sometime ago i read in a news paper of a guy who was fined,and for whatever reason wrote out his payment on toilet paper,and this was accepted by the court


Cheques can be written on anything. You don't need the cheque books supplied by banks.
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