email sent to hm treasury about life burth bond

Re: email sent to hm treasury about life burth bond

Postby jonboy » Mon Apr 06, 2009 7:45 pm

As I posted in another thread, "exemption account" could be what it is called V.
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Re: email sent to hm treasury about life burth bond

Postby albion » Tue May 05, 2009 11:00 pm

My mythical two-ha'pence worth - when a company raises money from a finance house (venture capital fund or whatever) it has to show what the loan is secured against. There *has* to be some form of 'security' offered in exchange, by law. I mean, they don't just turn up with the money in a wheelbarrow and say, 'here you go guys, pile in'; usually it's done by the company issuing some form of shares, and usually those shares have to be given a putative value that reasonably reflects some actual value. Bearing in mind that finance house only extend credit, they have to show that the credit has been extended on reasonable grounds. I know a little about this (enough to know what a complex field it is and how little I actually know) - I raised a million dollars US on a biz plan in the dotcom boom.

So maybe an FoI query to the Treasury asking what formal security is issued to lenders when the Government raises money on the international money markets. Maybe they 'bundle' birth certificates into security blocks; unlikely, I feel - live babies are not necessarily proof of future income. My instinct is it is linked to NI numbers, and more specifically to Tax codes, because that's the only proof (ie reasonable security) that UK Plc has of its income. However, I would be surprised if the securities are directly traceable to individuals; I'd be more inclined to think that persons are 'bundled', as I say, and the resultant security is called something fairly meaningless; mostly because if for sake of argument each tax code is worth say UKP34m, it's unlikely finance houses want to deal with that kind of fiddling small change individually; these guys work in billions. But you never know.

Also would be interesting to know what the Funding Schedule is; again, even once they've extended the loan, it's usually released as instalments, and not just handed all over at once (the lenders want to retain as much of the interest as they can, as well as reserve their option to back out if their investment looks like going tits up). This is why companies have to show in minute detail what they want the money for, and when they want it; known as a 'budget'. Funding schedules are rarely binding, as I found out to my considerable cost.

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Re: email sent to hm treasury about life burth bond

Postby Andrew » Tue May 05, 2009 11:13 pm

The UK has a AAA credit rating (maxed out) , they do not need any proof of security on transactions / loans etc. so i would be very doubtful if there is any traceable link to the wage slave income.
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Re: email sent to hm treasury about life burth bond

Postby albion » Wed May 06, 2009 8:08 am

Andrew wrote:The UK has a AAA credit rating (maxed out) , they do not need any proof of security on transactions / loans etc. so i would be very doubtful if there is any traceable link to the wage slave income.


Clever stuff, AAA credit *and* bankrupt! Wish I could figure that one... so if there's no direct link between JOE BLOGGS and the lender, why would the Government need to issue a bond for everyone? Doesn't that undermine the 'Live Birth Trust' concept? :puzz:

Just found this basic primer on Government Borrowing, clarified some background for me and some interesting stats:
http://tutor2u.net/economics/content/topics/fiscalpolicy/borrowing.htm

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Re: email sent to hm treasury about life burth bond

Postby Hope » Sun Jun 07, 2009 9:55 pm

www.whatdothyeknow ( kent D&B) seems it imply they get info
from a phone book :thinks:
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Re: email sent to hm treasury about life burth bond

Postby Hope » Mon Jun 08, 2009 8:10 am

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Re: email sent to hm treasury about life burth bond

Postby Farmer » Tue Jun 30, 2009 5:04 pm

albion wrote:Clever stuff, AAA credit *and* bankrupt! Wish I could figure that one... so if there's no direct link between JOE BLOGGS and the lender, why would the Government need to issue a bond for everyone? Doesn't that undermine the 'Live Birth Trust' concept?


Do they issue a bond? I've read many times that they do, but never seen the proof.
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Re: email sent to hm treasury about life burth bond

Postby 1965freeman » Tue Jun 30, 2009 8:41 pm

OK folks
check out my question (whatdotheyknow.com) to the treasury regarding 'Gilts' - the financial instruments they (Bank of England) issue to raise cash.
They may reply that its just their 'credit rating' that makes people buy these gilts, sure in the knowledge of the B of E's track record in repayments, that they will get their money (+interest) back at the end of the term of the Gilt. (usually 5/10 years).
Sooooo I ask then, - where does the money come from that allows you to insure these repayments are met? The treasury/exchequer? And how do these venerable institutions 'raise' their cash? Hmmm lets see.....taxes, taxes, fines, more taxes.......

I'll let you know when they reply.

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/gilts_what_are_they_backed_with
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Re: email sent to hm treasury about life burth bond

Postby Farmer » Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:11 pm

Well that will be interesting.

However, a private corporation can do exactly the same. Large multinational companies do issue bonds in the markets because it is cheaper than getting a loan from the banks. The bonds are not backed by an asset as far as I know.
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Re: email sent to hm treasury about life burth bond

Postby annaorv » Mon Oct 05, 2009 10:57 am

Hi
I'm jumping in here because something occurred to me, apologies if this should be in taxes, but the idea started here.
The difference one of you pointed out between ME and 'me' demonstrates how peole can be forced into paying taxes, which leaves them unable to buy food and other essentials, so they turn to credit cards and get in debt and all sorts of trouble, which could well have been avoided if they had had recourse to their full salary, rather than the bit HM Gov lets them hang onto.

So, the ME hasn't got the funds to pay (they only have to look at MY bank statement!), and the 'me' never contracted to pay (so they can bog off).

People are so programmed to see tax avoidance as tax evasion (the only realities are death and taxes. How arrogant!) But is it evasion, if it keeps you out of debt/poverty?

I don't believe if we all stopped paying tax that the world would end. (well, some stuff would end :clap: )If we all had access to all our money, as earned (or whatever you want to use, LETS tokens, potatoes), we would, surely be able to volunteer a sum of that to community funds, for bins, lighting, etc. Modern day tithes?

I'd appreciate your views, my husband thinks I'm barking.
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