A certificate is not evidence of Identity.

A certificate is not evidence of Identity.

Postby consumerpada » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:03 pm

Dunno about you,

But my certificate and most recent familly ones say - "A certificate is not evidence of Identity" in bold at the bottom. Now I know it hasnt been there long because yesterday I looked at my grandaddies (Born 1914) and it doesn't say antthing like that on there. (or my Mums born 1940's) It does still say ''Certified to be a true copy of a register in my custody'' also the ACT grandads applies to is the B&D 1857 ( obviously) Also the new ones are copyrighted, the older one are much more regal looking, more of a BOND look about them.

But the question is when did the certificate's status changed to not being proof of identity?

It's a laugh though because when you want a passport ( which is a definate evidence of supposed 'identity',) you have to produce the Birth Certificate!!, just goes to show doesn't it - smoke and mirrors man smoke and mirrors.

What a look you get when someone asks you to produce ID, you produce the cert, let them ID you, then point out the line at the bottom --- see their face :giggle:

I'd love to see an early certificate from like 1860 ish, I'll ask around the familly.
Knowledge makes a (wo)man unfit to be a slave." — Frederick Douglass
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Re: A certificate is not evidence of Identity.

Postby huntingross » Mon Jun 01, 2009 9:06 pm

I got my mums and dads certificates without any proof, when I needed to get a British passport....so I can be anyone of three people now....(sorry mum)

Maybe an FOI would clear this one up...
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Re: A certificate is not evidence of Identity.

Postby consumerpada » Tue Jun 02, 2009 11:40 am

Cheers for that hg,

I have submitted just now a FOI request to the GRO Entitled: Request for information and Clarification.

along the lines.

1. When did the line "A certificate is not evidence of Identity." first appear on the certificate of birth?
2. Was the certificate of birth ever evidence of Identity?
3. Do I have any Lawful right to see the entry in the register that relates to my own birth?

......

I will post responses :saint:

oh crap - what is actually says is "certificate is not proof of identity" so depending on the reply I may have to resend later - :thinks:
Knowledge makes a (wo)man unfit to be a slave." — Frederick Douglass
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Re: A certificate is not evidence of Identity.

Postby huntingross » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:10 pm

It would be ironic if it coincided with breaking the link between notes and gold.
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Re: A certificate is not evidence of Identity.

Postby BaldBeardyDude » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:15 pm

huntingross wrote:It would be ironic if it coincided with breaking the link between notes and gold.


Suspiciously so, m8
They must find it hard to take Truth for authority who have so long mistaken Authority for Truth - Gerald Massey
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Re: A certificate is not evidence of Identity.

Postby kevin » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:19 pm

I've done my family tree, i've got loads of certificates :clap: i can be anyone i want :rotfl: .

most say "A certificate is not evidence or identity"

some have the Welsh translation also

but they are all recent copies of the original, you can just send of for anybodies for a few pounds of...what?, which is great, i got my dad and mums, nan...well most of the family actually


give me your name, date of birth and place of birth and i'll tell you your parents names, and i can buy your certificates...marriage/death/birth
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Re: A certificate is not evidence of Identity.

Postby consumerpada » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:14 pm

Does this answer the question/s ? :psst:

Reply received from GRO, OK the 1993 part I didnt know so thanks for that.
Was it ever ID? Not answered
Do Ihave the lawful right to see the register? Not answered

or am I missing something?
................................................................................

Dear Sir/Madam

Thank you for your enquiry.

A birth certificate is not, evidence of identity and certificates printed
since 1993 contain a warning to this effect. All Government departments are
aware of this and, although a birth certificate may be used as part of
verification procedures, a certificate will not be accepted as sole
evidence of identity.

The General Register Office works closely with government departments who
use certificates to help them in tackling the fraudulent use of
certificates.

The current system of registration is covered by legislation dating back to
1837. This legislation allows individuals, if they are able to provide
sufficient information to identify a register entry, to obtain a certified
copy of any birth death or marriage entry .

I hope this information assists you .

Regards
..................................................................................
Knowledge makes a (wo)man unfit to be a slave." — Frederick Douglass
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Re: A certificate is not evidence of Identity.

Postby consumerpada » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:54 pm

-Second request sent today-

Dear (name left off for respect)

Thank you for your reply to my query entitled : General request for information and clarification

made under the Freedom of Information Act.

I am honored that you have personally given time to the query and as such I value your correspondence.

I now comprehend that A birth certificate is not, evidence of identity and certificates printed
since 1993 contain a warning to this effect.

I also support your efforts to combat fraudulent use of certificates.

What has not been clarified in your correspondence ( I believe I did ask) is:

a) Was a certificate 'ever' considered evidence of Identity prior to 1993 and who (as in which government body or agent of Her Majesty) declared that a certificate (since 1993) is not evidence of Identity? i.e was it a statutory act, a bylaw, a select committee etc..etc...

b) I comprehend The current system of registration is covered by legislation dating back to 1837. Is it a Lawful request if I ask to see the actual register that contains the entry relating to myself? - i.e If I ask to see the actual register - is that a Lawful request to which the GRO must comply under the Freedom of Information act OR any other act OR it is explicitly unlawful or even illegal for me to make such as request. (i.e do I have a lawful right to see the actual register)

Please do let me know if these questions should be addressed to an agency other than the GRO Contact Centre.

I thank you kindly in advance.

Kenny-lee: Lewis (male)
......................................................................................................
Knowledge makes a (wo)man unfit to be a slave." — Frederick Douglass
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Re: A certificate is not evidence of Identity.

Postby Zaniwhoop » Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:42 pm

Nice one consumerpada :yes: ,

I'm moving this topic over to the Birth Certificates section.

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Re: A certificate is not evidence of Identity.

Postby markie b » Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:25 pm

i think its to do with the based on a true story thing with night of the jackal where a guy chooses a dead people from grave yards get their b cert and creates a new identity from it thats why they put that disclaimer on becuase people were copying others identities usually the dead from birth whom would be close to the same age.the guy who was doing it was an assassin or spy or something.but apparently the home office isnt to worried because only about 0.5% have done this in the uk or that they know of :wink:
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