Stateless

Stateless

Postby huntingross » Thu Aug 25, 2011 6:46 pm

This article today made me wonder....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-14654066

The UN reckons there are 12 million stateless people in the world.....

The problem is most widespread in South East Asia, Central Asia, Eastern Europe, the Middle East and Africa


Now these stateless people are living within the territory of known states.....yet one of the frequent arguements is that if you live within the territory of a state then you are subject to the laws of that state.....obviously not so.

Which only leaves the consent arguement....well obviously living within the territory of a state isn't taken to mean tacit consent to the laws of that statee, otherwise these people wouldn't be considered stateless.

So the question can only go to the heart of the issue....FORCE ?
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Re: Stateless

Postby jonboy » Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:03 pm

Are Gypsies stateless? They don't register their births, don't have NI numbers, don't worry about income tax, they are freemen. Always wondered how they go abroad, I wan't to crack this piece of the puzzle so I don't have to renew my passport using my legal fiction.
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Re: Stateless

Postby Freeman Stephen » Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:10 pm

Getting from a to b without a passport is as simple at floating a log on the sea. Some people prefer the comfort of a boat and there are people from at least the new age movement that build these.
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Re: Stateless

Postby pedawson » Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:28 pm

I think it refers to people who are not registered.
The term 'stateless' is a red herring, they ARE in a 'state', just that the authorities are saying they do not recognise the state they are in. thus 'STATELESS'.
We freeman ARE 'stateless' and again the 'STATE' does not recognise us. So we are, so to speak 'stateless'.
Our statelessness is not that we are not registered nor that we are not in a 'STATE' it is that we do not recognise 'THEM' the STATE.

If they say, they do not recognise a person because of their status, and call them stateless, then we can do the same.
I do not recognise this STATE therefore I am stateless.

Can somebody untangle this because I just confused myself :giggle: I think you get my drift.

What they can do, we can too.

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Re: Stateless

Postby huntingross » Thu Aug 25, 2011 7:59 pm

I do not recognise the UK in the context you describe, Phil, but they still subjected me to their will....by force.

I am now subject to a foreign jurisdiction from the UK, but they still wish to subject me to their will by force.

These so called stateless people are not considered to be subject to the jurisdiction of the territories within which they live...the article says they are not registered....I'm sure they would like to "benefit" in some way from the state, but it is seemingly not forced upon them by virtue of their "geography" or "tacit consent"

These people have achieved (I assume through no fault of their own) what many of us here are seeking....at least on the face of the article....to be free of state intervention.
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Re: Stateless

Postby ArturoDekko » Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:22 pm

"It's shameful that millions of people are living without nationality - a fundamental human right."

What ? ? ? ? ? :shh:
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Re: Stateless

Postby huntingross » Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:33 pm

Remember this one by Faarmer

viewtopic.php?f=59&t=3337&hilit=6+months+farmer#p31532

You can renounce your citezenship, but should you remain stateless for 6 months you will be re-absorbed into the state.....its like gravity....only escape velocity will do.
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Re: Stateless

Postby wanabfree » Thu Aug 25, 2011 8:51 pm

If any of you are familiar with Marc Stevens he goes to prove there are no states or citizens.

a state is just a piece of paper a statute, same as a borough or county, if you don't believe me look up your own alleged borough and find when and what created it, it's a fiction, a figment of the mind, point being they don't exist.

Stateless what does that mean factually?

what is probably being implied is that the group of people who call themselves government and any other bureaucrat that defends them, would not recognise such people as being able to draw benefits from the government and without any basic rights ?.

What a delusion they must be in to believe such crap.
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Re: Stateless

Postby huntingross » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:09 pm

Its not a question of whether a State is a fiction or not....every day, people who believe in this stuff ensure that other people stay within the rules they make.

If we try to de-cipher how they are authorised to make those decisions on our behalf, we are told social contract, tacit consent, you're in the territory.....but here we see that the people who make these rules declaring that there are people outwith their rules and they choose not to use the 3 points I have highlighted to claim that they are subject to the rules.....Why is that.....Why doesn't it work for us, if we choose to opt out.

These 12 million people (I'm guessing) are not internet researchers or shit hot lawyers that know how to side step all this stuff, thay are prrobably very humble people of limited means....and find themselves free of coercion to join the party.
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Re: Stateless

Postby holy vehm » Thu Aug 25, 2011 9:10 pm

This reminds me of the film starring tom hanks based on a true story of a frenchman stranded at an airport because he had no documentation to prove his citizenship to a state. He remained trapped within the confines of the airport.
Is this also applied to 'illegal immigrants' held in detention centres?

If you are not a citizen of the state you are in and provide no documentation to prove you are a citizen of another state you cannot benefit from that state nor be returned to any other state because they would not recognise you as on of there's.

So they are 'freemen'.

But they have no entitlements to land or jobs ect or the states courts will not recognise their claims to such.

Are they still covered by the undhr?
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