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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:01 am
by Freeman Stephen

Fuck! Fuck! and Double Fuck Fuck Fuckity Fuck!

I can rebuild a temporary shelter out of the remaining three tents, a sheet of visqueen and two emergeny shelters (large sheets of platic foil), but I need some ideas for keeping it warm since the make shift stove is dead and I dont fancy the idea of dripping hot polythene raining down on me again.

More info on how it happened here:

Needless to say (since Ive lost laptop B) and I dont have the right voltage coming out the generator yet, online contact will be difficult after boxing day when I intend to return until I get a variable resistor or a transformer to dunk between the generator and my proper desktop PC.

Re: Fire!!!!

PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:44 am
by holy vehm
Dear of dear stephen, at least you are all ok if not your pride.
That looks like a lucky escape, shame to lose the personal effects and the laptop.
You have chosen to live a free life and your post shows just how hard and dangerous that can be sometimes, much respect to you guys.
I do hope you take more care stephen, its an easy mistake to make i know, especially as you are trying to stay warm in what is a very harsh winter.

We have a large 6 berth tent, with 2 3 person rooms and a living area, its domed shaped with good head room. It has a ground sheet as well i think.
I would like to donate this to you guys if you will except it, but please no more indoor fires eh :grin:
I also have i think a steel chimmny flue which could be used to vent any smoke/fumes. You could build a brick fire place, use blue brick (engineering brick) very strong and some paving flags which i also have.
Your welcome to it but im afraid you would have to collect, im in cheshire 5 mins of the m6, i could meet you at a services along the m6 if you prefer.

Anyway mate do take care


Re: Fire!!!!

PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:06 pm
by Freeman Stephen
Cheers vehm. Im actually alright for accomodation, since ive got a stack of tents I can use but the one problem is how to heat them - and I cant fit a stove inside the shelter I end up with. Its like a 2 man tent (actually big enough for just one) inside a threeman tent which has a double layer, which is inside a four man tent which only has the outerlayer left. I have two plastic foil emergency shelters which I will use for an additional layer, and a sheet of visqueen which I will pull over the eventual combination creating a small area outdoors sheltered from the rain to pee in. Theres also the eventuality of buying a couple of extra duvets to use as an extra layer of insulation on the tents.

Im wondering if, given the insulation, a bunch of tealights will work as a heat source, or whether large candles would be better. I can cook food in a warm enough room using only tealights - campinggaz is difficult for me to get a hold of at this time of year so a bivouac stove would be pointless. Any ideas besides candles?

Re: Fire!!!!

PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:29 am
by huntingross
Geeze FS.....that's a shitty thing to happen.

All the obvious low tech heating solutions carry fire risk.....except one very simple tubes....

Rehau have some software which gives you an idea of the heat to be gained by placing pipes in the ground at approx 1500mm down

The website is here

A 200mm dia pipe 12m long would keep a tent warm to about 8C without any fuel being burned.

I can't find the software on their site, but I already have a copy, so PM with email address if you would like a copy

Re: Fire!!!!

PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 7:41 am
by Freeman Stephen
Thats an idea. While I had the shelter built, which was supposed to be temporary anyway, although not as temporary as it turned out, I had the idea of fitting metal to the stove pipe then connecting metal pipes onto that that ran along the way a few inches below the ground. This wasnt so much exploiting the earths heat, but using the metal as a conductor of the heat that is generally floating out the chimney anyway.

I was taking measurements of the soils temperature (thermometers melted now - electronic) in early september the soil was at 18^C when the air temperature was around 6-12^C. The last reading I took was on the 22nd, where the soil was at 4^C when the air temperature was around -6^C. The thermometer was a steel pointy rod about 10 inches long.

Someone suggested digging into the ground and building the shelter in the hole - I didnt do this because of the high water table on the land, but I reckon if I did do this and measured the soil temperature 10 inches below the base of the hole, the temperature would have been about the same. Never thought of doing steel rods though.

The thing Im planning to live in until I can get something proper built will be a 2x1.5 metre tent on the inside with larger tents on the outside to give layers of insulation and provide storage space. Im not worried about fire, only petrol, but I need to be sure the flames will remain low - candles is the only thing I can think of, outside of building a fire outside and trying to direct the heat inward.

Re: Fire!!!!

PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:44 am
by huntingross
Yup, living in a "basement" is good for energy conservation, but sucks for water issues.

A rocket stove looks like a really good and simple way to have real fire without the disadvantages of flames licking around your feet all the time....there are plenty of good articles on how to build them with only a few bricks.....the Scandinavians use this principle to heat their houses on a large scale.

They can be small (boil a kettle size) to BIG.

Good luck

Re: Fire!!!!

PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:26 pm
by kliff
You might take a look at gas catalytic heaters - just a thought :thinks:

Re: Fire!!!!

PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:20 pm
by Prajna
and if you want to go low tech, Stephen, try charcoal. No fumes, so no chimney required. Sadly, I expect it will be expensive to buy and difficult to buy in quantity. Maybe for next winter, though, you could make some.


Re: Fire!!!!

PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:36 am
by huntingross
I may have misunderstood what you are saying Prajna when you say "no chimney required". Burning charcoal within the living space without proper management of the air supply and combustion gas (carbon monoxide) would be potentially lethal.

Re: Fire!!!!

PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:40 am
by sindakit
For insulation thatching Heather together to fill the inside layers of the tent will work really well as a natural,free, local solution. For heating rocket stoves and thermal heating from the ground will be the best ways forward I imagine.

For the summer, if you don't mind getting dirty and some hard work, I'd suggest digging a deep well and reinforcing it. Water will naturally fill it up and you can use this along with a solar thermal rig to store heat energy gathered during the day.