The Amazing World of Property Ownership

The Amazing World of Property Ownership

Postby notolivercromwell » Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:51 pm

Property Title Deeds


Before you read this you might pour yourself a stiff drink, or, at least, sit down -


Most people have heard the phrase 'title deeds' or 'deeds to the house'. But how many people know exactly what they are?
The vast majority of property nowadays on this island is registered at (wait for it.................) 'Her Majesty's Land Registry', to use it's formal title. (Surprise, surprise !) Her Majesty's Land Registry has offices at various locations around the country. Technically speaking the Land Register is kept in those offices and it never leaves them. So if a solicitor or anybody else outside the registry wants to consult the register, he has to either attend the Registry in person or else ask it to send a copy of the part he is interested in.

The Land Register entries for any particular property includes 4 parts:
The Property Register - I.e. which property it is and title
The Proprietor (owner, in plain English)
The Charges Register - what rights other people may have over the property.
The Plan - a plan showing the boundaries of the property.

The owner of the property gets (wait for it…….a 'land certificate') . This is a very formal looking copy of the register entries. It looks so formal many people mistake it for the real thing. But it is not - it is just a copy of the entries on the Land Register. !

If the owner mortgages his/her property, he gets his land certificate taken away! Well, the lender keeps it, and he sends it to the Registry to register the mortgage. The Registry then sends an identical certificate back again to the lender, with details of the mortgage entered and with its name changed to 'charge certificate'. A charge certificate is, for all practical purposes, exactly the same as a land certificate except that it is held by the mortgage lender rather than the owner. The land certificate remains locked away at the Land Registry. When the mortgage has been repaid by the borrower, the lender will send the charge certificate to the borrower with a confirmation of repayment. He then sends these to the Land Registry and it then keeps them and sends him his land certificate back.

So, what are 'Title Deeds' Then ?

Title deeds are purely and simply the documents needed to prove who owns a particular property. Sometimes just the land or charge certificate will do the trick. Occasionally though the register entries will themselves refer to other documents and so these will be needed too.
However, even when the register entries are enough, there is one problem with the land or charge certificate - it can be out of date. It may be anything from days to years old, and the register may have been altered during that period. So it needs bringing up to date.

It will be updated automatically next time it goes to the registry (eg because the property has been sold or mortgaged), but in the meantime in order to get the latest information 'office copies' are ordered. An office copy is simply a photocopy of the up-to-date register entries. Office copies are sent out by the Land Registry on request.

Remember that the Land Registry is open to the public. Anybody can get office copies for any property whenever they wish. There are however restrictions on access to documents referred to in the register entries.

Unregistered property

Very occasionally though the property concerned may not be registered at all. This is rare and getting rarer. When it does happen, then there may be many documents needed to prove ownership, and it can be quite a complicated job.

The reason why there are so few unregistered properties about is because registration is compulsory in most cases once ownership is transferred. So, by and large, the only unregistered properties still around are the ones that have been owned by the same person since before this compulsion was introduced. Compulsion was introduced to different parts of the country at different times, but covers to whole country now.

Where are they?

As you will now appreciate, the important documents are not the nice looking ones you see but are actually the ones at the Land Registry. Land and charge certificates and office copies are simply copies. They are important copies however so they should still be kept safe. It is these copies that nowadays tend to be thought of as 'the title deeds', even though strictly speaking they are as said just copies of the entries held at the Land Registry.

If the property is mortgaged, then these deeds will be kept by the mortgage lender. Otherwise the owner keeps them, although they are frequently deposited with a solicitor for safekeeping. If the property is not registered, then the deeds really are the deeds! They therefore need especially careful looking after.

//

Is there any end of illusions in the feudal system ? Probably not. Speaking of car ‘ownership’…….LOL !!!


//
notolivercromwell
 
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:15 pm

Re: The Amazing World of Property Ownership

Postby treeman » Mon Jan 04, 2010 11:03 pm

NotOC, You make my head hurt in a right way, if you knowwarramean.
I'll make no subscription to their paradise.

All Rights Reserved - Without Prejudice - Without Recourse - Non-Assumpsit
Errors & Omissions Excepted
User avatar
treeman
 
Posts: 2821
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:33 pm
Location: On the Land

Re: The Amazing World of Property Ownership

Postby notolivercromwell » Tue Jan 05, 2010 8:27 am

So the facts are these -

The actual deeds of a property never become yours, even if you 'own' the property. The same is true for a car. The original documents of both are both sent to the Crown and you never get them. And since they both relate to tangible assets they (those documents) can be used as value. (To generate more cash in the economy). In fact, even if you went to court to get your original title deeds you would lose. Because the land itself is actually owned by the system. Next time you find some old coins on 'your' property who do they belong to ? That's the feudal system, right ?

And, as for 'car ownership', more of the same.
notolivercromwell
 
Posts: 217
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:15 pm

Re: The Amazing World of Property Ownership

Postby ronmamita » Sun Jan 16, 2011 5:56 pm

I'm Crying over my spilled milk :ouch:
I lost my reply post here and must retype but not as eloquently as my original; but here is my retry...

WOW, thank you for posting this topic! :clap:
Here in the USA, natural born men had sovereignty, and in that respect they considered themselves lords and the home were their kingdom. That was a major enticement for european settlers. The law recognized sovereign men and their right to own land ("land patents") while legal fiction (governments & corporations) could not own land (rare exceptions were granted, ie Railroad corporations for the expressed exception to construct railroads for the public interest). But, modern corpoRAT (oops, I mean to say "corporate") :giggle: USA apparently has injected mortgage warranty deeds that usurp people's right to own the land. Land can't be sold (it can only be granted) because it isn't movable chattle. the house or moveable chattle can be sold but that is separate from the actual land that the house and toys and furniture rests upon. That is my understanding, please correct me if someone can point to legal USA history that contradicts this.
Anyways, this is a bit afar from the reason I landed on this thread...

I entered the search term "Proprietor" and found this topic.
I wanted to find the (or a) appropriate legal term or phrase that I can use in court or with the mortgage bank concerning my past signatures on legal fiction or deceptive contracts. I was considering one term ("proprietor") as in "I am the proprietor of the legal NAME & SSN (Social Security Number)".
Should we consider ourselves as the proprietor of that legal fiction?
What is our common law relationship with that legal fiction?
My mind is swimming (floundering) with a lawful way to speak about it without making a legal joinder that put me in jeopardy.
We (I think) may hold authority or jurisdiction of the strawman, but are we the proprietor of the legal fiction, strawman?

Black's Law dictionary failed to give me enough examples for me to reach an understanding.
I hope we can post/share more research here for us all to gain understanding on these legal relationships.

LOVE & Peace
(GLOBALLY)
LOVE & Peace
(GLOBALLY)
ronmamita
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:41 pm
Location: USA

Re: The Amazing World of Property Ownership

Postby greg » Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:30 am

Notolivercromwell, I fear you may be right. From my research it seems to me that the entire land registry is just a scam for people to willingly give away ownership of the land. Trying to explain this to people who believe they own their own house is not advised... Greg
greg
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:36 pm

Re: The Amazing World of Property Ownership

Postby jonboy » Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:19 pm

As with "registered KEEPER" on V5 documents, the truth is always hidden in plain sight.

The term "HOME owner" that appears on letters and documents seems very innocent, but gives the game away in my opinion.

You own a "home" not a HOUSE, you are not a house owner. A home is just a concept. A house is a physical object.

The Land registry owns the physical house, you own the home.
"Reason is the life of the law; nay, the common law itself is nothing else but reason. The law which is perfection of reason" Sir Edward Coke 1552-1634.

NO ONE RULES IF NO ONE OBEYS.

It is better to light one candle than to curse the darkness.
User avatar
jonboy
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 1375
Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:17 pm
Location: Albion

Re: The Amazing World of Property Ownership

Postby demur » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:38 pm

Hi i am new to this site. I have been reading comments from all over about land, property ownership. I understand about reg. something and how the body it is registerd to takes title ownership. so much like a car in theory you could notice the land reg to de-register land or property, then the land and property would be allodial? the only problem is the queen in most of uk. so how can allodial title trully be achived? Perhaps the land reg was really brought into play because the queen is a trator and she knows it, so to regain her country or land and to keep in controll the land reg was created? i apologise if i posted this in the wrong place but this area seemed to be the right place for my post.
demur
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:36 pm
Location: west whalian

Re: The Amazing World of Property Ownership

Postby greg » Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:59 pm

How do you get allodial title? Good question. Since the Queen thinks she owns all the land in this little island, and has an army to enforce her will, I'd say that's gonna be pretty tough in the real world...

I love this "Queen is a traitor" argument. I love how it implies that this system isn't working exactly as it should do. These people are running the show, they let us live here in return for crippling taxes and us agreeing not to round up a mob and take control. Personally I think that's just dandy, they really are a great bunch!

As I comprehend it, you can't get allodial title in England and Wales, although it is possible in Scotland. I think Huntingross and Freeman Stephen have some good knowledge on this

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/allodial_title_2
http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/allodial_title

Greg
greg
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 343
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:36 pm

Re: The Amazing World of Property Ownership

Postby retlaw » Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:22 pm

Britain is owned by the Vatican .
Treaty of 1213
retlaw
 
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:11 am

Re: The Amazing World of Property Ownership

Postby ronmamita » Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:15 am

ronmamita wrote:I'm Crying over my spilled milk :ouch:

I wanted to find the (or a) appropriate legal term or phrase that I can use in court or with the mortgage bank concerning my past signatures on legal fiction or deceptive contracts. I was considering one term ("proprietor") as in "I am the proprietor of the legal NAME & SSN (Social Security Number)".
Should we consider ourselves as the proprietor of that legal fiction?
What is our common law relationship with that legal fiction?
My mind is swimming (floundering) with a lawful way to speak about it without making a legal joinder that put me in jeopardy.
We (I think) may hold authority or jurisdiction of the strawman, but are we the proprietor of the legal fiction, strawman?

Black's Law dictionary failed to give me enough examples for me to reach an understanding.
I hope we can post/share more research here for us all to gain understanding on these legal relationships.

I may be taking positive steps for knowledge as I start to read The Uniform Commercial Code (UCC)
http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/search/display.html?terms=certificate&url=/ucc/8/article8.htm#s8-501b
Some key terms for commerce law are
adverse claim
security certificate
security intermediary
security entitlement
entitlement holder
I ask those who have and are researching the UCC to please post explainations as it applies to the birth certificate security and real property ownership; we will find remedy. :hug:
ronmamita
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2011 12:41 pm
Location: USA

Next

Return to Land Claims

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests