Wood Vinegar

Wood Vinegar

Postby Freeman Stephen » Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:35 pm

I've been making a still and dry distilling wood over the past couple of days. Thought Id share my experience.


http://www.youtube.com/v/TpDWfP2Vq8I


Most people think of distillation and assume booze. Im trying to create useful chemicals so I wont be forced to trade fiat for alternatives. For example - produce my own oil instead of buying candles.

This is "kinda" my first attempt at making a still. "kinda" as in I've made two different stills using the same increasingly destroyed copper tube as I made mistakes with the first version and destroyed the pipe trying to reform it. I intend to get a new pipe and build a better one having learned from my mistakes.

As for distilling - initially the plan was to create oil by heating wood in an airtight chamber which would release the oil as vapour as the wood turned to charcoal. Unfortunately this is not what I actually got - well not on its own.

The vapour condenses in the pipe into liquid and drips into a bottle. What you get is a mixture of stuff with the oil floating at the top (about 10%) of the liquor collected. 2 litres of wood produced 1 cup of liquor.

I have it on good authority that there are also oils dissolved in the water but this doesn't make much sense to me.

By the same authority, the portion of the liquid which is not oil is composed of about 70% water. Of whats left, most of it is acetic acid (table vinegar concentrate). The rest is a mixture of organic compounds, chiefly acetone and methanol.

So now that I have wood vinegar by dry distillation, my next trick will be to separate the various compounds from this liquor using ordinary "wet" distillation.

Each compound has a different boiling point. By collecting the vapours emitted at certain temperatures and condensing the vapours back into liquids, I can separate the liquor.

Methanol and acetone boil at around 65°, whereas water boils at 100°. So if I collect in one bottle before getting anywhere near waters boiking point, I should collect a liquor known as crude methanol. After the water boils off at 100°, I will have a bottle for colleting the acetic acid vapours which evaporate around 110°.

Whats left should be oil but given the amount of gas I've used to produce a tenth of a cupful of oil, I will need to think about alternative fuels. The remaining charcoal left after all the wood has decomposed into vapour could go someway to alleviating the harvesting of precious butane gas bottle trees which are a very rare species where I live. There is also the potential to use wood as the fuel under the chamber as well as wood as the feedstock inside in the chamber.

Crude methanol could be an important breakthrough as it catches fire very easily, perhaps not as easily as the butane gas of a clipper lighter, but not far away from such.

One of the biggest barriers to truly independent living is the ability to create fire. At my current technology level, I can have a smouldering ball of hay in about an hour which may or may not catch fire. Thus clipper lighters, butane gas, parafin and parafinelia are things Im pretty much reliant on until I can create fire direct from my own skills relying only on nature rather than the things made by men beholden to the ... well that wise and munificent fiction that threatens to kill us if we dont obey it.
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Re: Wood Vinegar

Postby Prajna » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:07 pm

Birch bark makes excellent fire lighting material, even when it is wet.

Polypore fungi can be used to maintain an ember and has traditionally been used to transport fire.

Methenol is highly toxic and also cacenogenic.

Ascetic acid, interestingly, freezes at room temperature when pure.

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Re: Wood Vinegar

Postby Freeman Stephen » Mon Apr 07, 2014 9:32 pm

Methanol is toxic if you drink it but if you burn it - CO2 and Water.

As for birch paper, that's my point about tinderbundles. You can spend an hour getting them to ember then smoke just to reach a flashpoint you can ignite. With methanol, the flashpoint starts at 16°. You can light it easily after applying a little body heat.

Besides, the point in the exercise isn't to create methanol but to create some distillate which just happens to be methanol and the other wood products. Theres other things besides wood I will be distilling to produce "dangerous chemicals" (dum dum dum!!!!) that you juat cant buy in the shops anymore.

Should be a bear market as agenda 21 kicks in lol.
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Re: Wood Vinegar

Postby squark » Mon Apr 07, 2014 10:36 pm

Stephen...wow.
I have distilled acetone (nail polish remover) to get the purple colour out. Its a pound a half litre!

Your dedication is admirable, but is this freedom. Freedom should include the freedom to enjoy mankinds advances. I am a platinum inter-dimensional spaceship kind of guy. I don't mind camping but.....wow.

I just remembered the best line of the best song I ever heard.,, Freedom is free of the need to be free.
And the Lord spake unto his people, he said "Get Off MY Bloody Land!"
And the people gave unto the Lord, freely they gave him The Finger
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Re: Wood Vinegar

Postby Freeman Stephen » Tue Apr 08, 2014 12:21 am

Its called autarchy and is the most supreme form of sovereignty there is. Not that Im anywhere near achieving it yet but look at the neighbours who need to import from china, russia, africa etc just for neccessities.

The austro-hungarian empire was rhe last recorded autarchy and because they relied on no one for anything, no one could have them over a barrel.

This isn't a personal sprint for independence but a desire to see the land able to support internal sovereignty for those who live here - I happen to live here but due to deficiencies in autarchy, I NEED to trade with the rest of the world and the only thing the world will trade me for is my labour. This obviously wont be a suitable arrangement when Im old and feeble so I need to get the land completely aelf sufficient (at least for one human) before Im too old to work.

You ought to watch some more of my videos if your taken aback by this step foreward. I truly have renounced government and unlike many other "freemen", I dont plan to collect a state pension or use its health service or anything. It would be juat fantastic to see others renounce it to the same extent.
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Re: Wood Vinegar

Postby musashi » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:35 pm

Hi Stephen.
Prajna suggests that you look at Mr. Tessalonian - a youtube channel. A redneck in the backwoods doing all sorts of stuff that might benefit you to look at with what you are doing.
A pm is on its way to you.

Musashi.
ISLAM DELENDA EST
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Re: Wood Vinegar

Postby squark » Tue Apr 08, 2014 10:29 pm

I'm checking out this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUyt0sKg7P8

Its a perpetual machine, free energy device. I know that is impossible but a magnet does work in sticking to the fridge, against the pull of gravity, forever, if you leave it there. Mainstream don't know where the fuel for the magnet comes from. The QEG exciter coil is an electro magnet, Bedini, Bearden, Tesla, Hutchison, Dollard, Rodin, Harramein, Tetryonics, etc etc etc, is starting to make sense to me. Pumping the magnet coil with sharp gradients of DC or magnetic flux in this case (I think) opens up the blotch wall, the neutral point between the 2 poles, and this allows longitudinal energy into the system. That longitudinal energy is converted to motion which turns the machine. Its all about timing, so resonance and tuning are all important. That longitudinal random pushing and shoving is a huge reservoir of energy, present at every point in the universe. There is you input power for the magnet, the difference being, pumping makes the energy motive rather than static.. I read the best way to learn is to teach, so there is my attempt. Its something like that. Like putting a paddle wheel into an invisible stream, river, torrent, 1*10^105 joules per cubic meter per second, ish, anyway a HUGE amount of energy is available.

Its quite a complex build that will require some sort of cutter for a press to make the parts. Not cheap but do-able. Its making sense to me! Don't know if I will afford to build one but it is a project worth keeping an eye on!!!!!! Once its out and understood, the world is a totally different place. Money will be almost meaningless. And the technology that opens up with understanding is gonna be awesome.

Perfect for a camping trip or powering a platinum inter-dimensional spaceship.

Peace y'all
And the Lord spake unto his people, he said "Get Off MY Bloody Land!"
And the people gave unto the Lord, freely they gave him The Finger
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Re: Wood Vinegar

Postby Freeman Stephen » Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:12 am

So yesterday (its now after midnight BST) I began distilling the wood vinegar and a couple of interesting things happenned. I took off the condensor and just used a down pointing spout - something like a glass retort except made of steel and copper. I used tealights as the heat source so I could boil it up slowly which would give me time to change collection vessels as each key temperature was passed.

I didn't do it right but I learned something.

At around fifty degrees at the elbow of the retort (where the uprising steam is conducted down), condensation began appearing in the collection bottle. I put my nose over the bottle at around 56° and it was like typpex correction fluid - very pungent. Presumably if I stopped here I would have had pure acetone.

I kept collecting in the same bottle, surpassing 65° where methanol liquifies. Around this temperature, the smell is of a very fruity methylated spirits - presumably methyl alcohol.

Im noticing what I will describe as "sticky temperatures". Rather than a linear gradiant as the elbow heats up, it appears to stick at certain temperatures for a while as if the vapours currently inside the elbow buffer the copper from getting too hot until the vapours are gone, condensed into the bottle - at least that's my theory but Im a noob at this remember.

So it gets to 73° and it sticks there for an interminably long period of time at which point I get bored and decide to blow put the tealights and resort to the gas stove.

In the collection bottle is about half a cup of fruity alcohol smelling stuff with a layer of tar on top - Im confident the tar came from the pipe which had previously bern used dry distilling wood.

I pour a little of the liquid onto a metal surface and try to light it with a spark, then with a lighter flame but nothing.

Then I hold the lighter flame over the top of bottle and suddenly whoosh! The flame jumps inside the bottle and flashes out in a fraction of a second, leaving me seconds later to wonder why Im wondering where my camera is - it was literally over in a flash and Im bealing I didn't film it but my stupidity doesn't end there ...

I try lighting the bottle again but it wont work and I figure maybe its the lack of oxygen now its all burnt by my previous action. So I pour the liquid into a new bottle and try lighting that but nope it doesnt work. However I now have the original bottle now empty - at least apparently.

I turn this empty bottle upside down and hold the lighter to the rim and the flame again flashes this time up into the bottle rather than down. Again Im wondering why Im wondering where my csmera is.

Im aware that Im not going to get tbe same "stuff" post 73° with the same batch of wood vinegar and realise I will have to do another batch of wood clippings to do that again - hopefully on camera - however theres still the possibility of a similar effect from post 73° distillates so I get the gas stove out.

I begin collecting distillate rapidly but the collection bottle heats up more rapidly than Im cooling it and cracks allowing the coolant to seep unto the bottle dissolving the distillate in a big mess of broken glass inside the coolant jar - FAIL.

I try again with a new bottle but the elbow temperature is now at 87° rising and not sticking and I realise all Im collecting now is water.

There is still some woid vinegar left in the kettle which I will open tommorrow to see whats inside - tar, oil and hopefully some acetic acid crystals.

Ill do this again but obviously a single notch between "woosh!" and nothing is not what Im aiming for. I want something where the vapours will light on a spark but the liquid will burn slowly. Maybe the parts of the tree is wrong, maybe the season of the tree is wrong, maybe its the wrong tree. Ill have to do more work to get my biopetrol.
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Re: Wood Vinegar

Postby huntingross » Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:00 pm

Burning your whiskers off is always exciting.

Pyrolisis of wood for wood gas doesn't just need to be wood, any dry vegetation will work....hydrocarbons.

The pyrolysis of plastics looks interesting and there are many youtubes of 'red-necks' using plastic to petrol processes. HDPE pipe, the blue water pipes appear to be the best.

Excellent write up of your procedure too Stephen...keep your eyes protected too.
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