This has certainly been an eventful afternoon

BBC related crime in here.

This has certainly been an eventful afternoon

Postby chomerly » Tue May 03, 2011 6:43 pm

Hi all,

Firstly, let me say that i have also made a duplicate post on the TPUC website.


Well, i've just been visited by TV Licensing today while i was across the street chatting with my neighbours.

A guy just walked up on the road, next to my property, and then went to step on to the boundary of the land associated with it.

I asked the gentleman if i could help him and he asked if i was the 'person' living there. I said yes and he then proceeded to tell me that he was from TVLA and said that there was a TV purchased in December at this address but they have no record of a TV license.

I asked him who he was and he quickly flashed his card to me before putting it away.
I thought to myself 'Right. I can see where this is going.'

I said that he was correct and that the TV in question 'was purchased by me as a Christmas present for my son who does not live with me.'
He seemed quite happy with that and he then asked if i had a TV license. I said no and he then asked if i had a TV at the address. I said i have a couple of computer monitors.

He smirked and asked if i had any way of viewing television and i then said that 'i will neither confirm or deny that i have as i don't believe in the BBC, what it stands for and i refuse to fund a corporation that i have no want of.'
I also went on to say that 'Under articles 82 & 86 of the EU Competition rules, it is illegal for a company or corporation to demand money for services before i can have the choice to buy services from it's competitors.'

He said that 'It's not the BBC that gets the money.' :giggle:
I looked at him with a 'Yeah, right' look on my face and said that 'TVLA works on behalf of the BBC for the enforcement of licensing and the money from licensing is what funds the BBC so please, don't patronise me as i actually know a little more about it than your giving me credit for.'

He then went on and told me that 'it's against the law to not have a TV license if i have a television in the home.'
It was at this point that i said that 'it's not actually a lawful requirement to have a TV license regardless of whether i own a TV or not.'
He said 'it is as it's the Communications Act 2003 which states that it is illegal to have a TV in the home without a license.'
I said that 'it is exactly that, an act and that acts are statutes, given the force of law by the consent of the governed and i do not consent.' (Wrong in part i know part i was trying my best as i'm still a novice at this.)

At this point the TVL officer got quite sharp with me and told me that 'it's ok, i'll come back with police officers and a warrant to enter the premises so i can look for any evidence of a television.' :puzz:
It was at this point i said to him that 'i was unaware that the BBC or TVLA had the power to get Warrants in order to.....' and he interrupted me and said 'I'll be back again' so i reached into my pocket to get my phone out to record the next series of events.
At the same time i asked him to show me his identification which he did by flashing it really quickly before i had the chance to set my phone up to record.

Everything else is what you'll hear and see on the video.
I must apologise for the way it was filmed as i was trying to be discreet as possible about him being filmed even though i said that i wanted to record what he had to say and his identification.

Here it is, enjoy.


http://www.youtube.com/v/9eJ_e-N5eOE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9eJ_e-N5eOE


After, i called the police and told them what had happened and i was visited by two officers who were very helpful.
One even agreed with my stance on the BBC and said that i had pretty much gone about this the right way.
He stated that should he come back that i should call the police again and they will deal with the agent accordingly.
He also stated that they now have a record of what has happened and what i have detailed so should anything else come about from this that they will be able to get a record should it go to court.

I thanked the officers for their time and then i set about typing this for all of you to see.
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Re: This has certainly been an eventful afternoon

Postby greg » Tue May 03, 2011 8:22 pm

That "TV detector van" looks really intimidating.

Good video. Shows these charlatans up for what they are - chancers with no legal powers.

Don't buy a TV license
If you have one cancel it
Stop watching TV
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Re: This has certainly been an eventful afternoon

Postby spudy » Tue May 03, 2011 8:29 pm

Nicely done..

they will return with two agents and two officers..you may get a letter in warning first about this but from experience with this company i can say they will return..

the warrent issued however requests entry and the right to check reciver equipment..it says nothing about giving your details or giving a statement for them..

so i suggest when they do turn up and identifie themselfs and reason for being there and show you the warrent(issued to the address not you btw)..you talk nicely, don't allow yourself to get steamed up(as thats when you start losing track of your thoughts and speach..no offence ment there btw)

just accept the warrent handed give no names or verifie any details, read it fully(take your bloody time doing so ;) ) then turn to either of the police officers present and say..

This warrent states requirement for entry to these premisis and to check any Tv equipment within, is this correct sir ?.

the officer may wish to read the warrent as well but either way he will say yes sir that is what this warrent grants..

say thank you officer(and his number or even ask his given name) then say you may escort these men into the residence to fufill this warrents exicution.

step aside and allow them into exicute the warrent..

soon as he has the agent will start trying to question you, turn to the officer who agreed the warrent and say..

sir i have fufilled the requirements of this warrent, i would appriciate you removing these men now from my property.

anything else said is now devoid of use, and any details added other than yes there is a tv in the premisis and yes it can recive signals, is a false statement and can be removed as evidence if it went to court.

if the agents get shity ask the police to protect you as you feel a crime may be commited if this action is not taken..that tends to make em run..or say i did as the warrent requested of me..if you require anything further i suggest you get a new warrent that grants you the power to question me against my will and under duress.

be polite, be calm, be cool ;)

Peace.
There is no Light and Dark, there is Only Light and its absence!

Arguments gain nothing but resentment, Disscussion however creates learning and unity.

I don't need to be told i am free, i know i am!

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Re: This has certainly been an eventful afternoon

Postby chomerly » Tue May 03, 2011 8:43 pm

Thanks Spudy,

I will certainly remember that.
I'll also make it as difficult as i can for them without being in any sort of dishonour.

This shall be fun.
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Re: This has certainly been an eventful afternoon

Postby pedawson » Tue May 03, 2011 9:04 pm

I like this one spudy.
It is imperative that any warrant or bit of paper given as a warrant is read carefully, any interruption whilst reading the warrant, just start from the beginning, and ask not to be interrupted.

A warrant should have a wet signature on it and it should have the crown seal, am I correct?

This suggestion spudy makes it clear, that they be allowed to do anything the warrant states but no more, and if anything else is attempted, stop them in their tracks.
I like it.

I would be tempted to make it clear that the warrant 'requests entry and the right to check receiver equipment', IF the equipment exists I would happily allow the execution of the warrant. However if the receiver equipment is not found I will be charging for the time it takes for the search. At that I would ask if the inspector agrees to the offer, if he does not agree I would ask 'on what grounds does the warrant claim I have such equipment'.

Remember the statement 'requests entry and the right to check receiver equipment'. They request entry and have the right to check receiver equipment.
I would also be tempted to ask 'in which rooms are you stating this equipment is in?'

Remember this is not a search warrant but a request to enter your abode to check the receiver equipment.
It is NOT illegal to own a receiver (TV broadcasts) the licence is NOT a blanket licence for TV use. There are many uses for a TV and the receiver can be used, just not for receiving broadcast tv channels.

I have a TV and I don't own a licence, I do not use it to receive tv broadcasts and have had the inspector round and assisted by the police; called by him.
I had them take me off the list of visits for four years as I stated I would not be receiving broadcasts 'EVER' and they have held up so far.

Namaste, phil;
Don't be surprised to discover that luck favours those who are prepared
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Re: This has certainly been an eventful afternoon

Postby spudy » Tue May 03, 2011 9:14 pm

pedawson wrote:I like this one spudy.
It is imperative that any warrant or bit of paper given as a warrant is read carefully, any interruption whilst reading the warrant, just start from the beginning, and ask not to be interrupted.

A warrant should have a wet signature on it and it should have the crown seal, am I correct?

This suggestion spudy makes it clear, that they be allowed to do anything the warrant states but no more, and if anything else is attempted, stop them in their tracks.
I like it.

I would be tempted to make it clear that the warrant 'requests entry and the right to check receiver equipment'

Namaste, phil;


you are very correct Phil mate, the warrent must be signed and sealed to be a executive warrent under issue of the crown ;)

the request to enter is a played on words request..you can refuse request however they have the right to check the equipment..this is impossible without a right to enter also..

you could drag the telly onto the lawn and ask them if they brought a genny of not you would be willing to offer service of a exstension and electrical outlet for their testing at a small nominal charge of course ;)

Peace
There is no Light and Dark, there is Only Light and its absence!

Arguments gain nothing but resentment, Disscussion however creates learning and unity.

I don't need to be told i am free, i know i am!

peace
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Re: This has certainly been an eventful afternoon

Postby kevin » Tue May 03, 2011 9:44 pm

get the officers numbers too, these people (TVL) have been known to lie in court so you may want to call the officers as a witness in the future. always remember...even if you are ever taken to give a statement say nothing then they have nothing to use against you.

I don't know how they deal with computers and phones which are capable of receiving tv signals now, does anyone know? obviously I can watch live tv on my computer like everyone else who has one should I visit a tv's website

NO LICENSE HERE!
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Re: This has certainly been an eventful afternoon

Postby pedawson » Tue May 03, 2011 10:04 pm

Kevin, a computer cannot receive TV broadcasts in a manor that can be clearly stated as 'being used as a receiver' by the TVL.
BBC place a website on the internet knowing full well, and restrict content, that anyone with a computer can access their content, the internet, is, unless otherwise notified in public domain and access is unrestricted.
If it was not the case then I could ask you if you have a licence to read this forum.
Same goes for phones.

What seems to be a problem is that if you have a TV and no licence the BBC are claiming you are going to watch BBC.
Do you need a licence to watch ITV or channel 4?; stab in the dark but I think I am correct in asking this.

The other thing about this, is that everyone assumes because someone owns a TV they are going to watch it. Why can I not just own a TV, what LAW states I cannot own one? I can buy one without a licence.

Namaste, phil;
Don't be surprised to discover that luck favours those who are prepared
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Re: This has certainly been an eventful afternoon

Postby huntingross » Tue May 03, 2011 10:10 pm

I thought it says something about watching "live" TV....recording doesn't count ?!!

I know little about this subject as I gave up TV in 1991
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Re: This has certainly been an eventful afternoon

Postby kevin » Tue May 03, 2011 10:15 pm

you can own a tv without a license, they only claim you need a license if it's capable of receiving a signal, if you haven't got the aerial plugged in it can't receive a signal ;)

this is what they are trying to say
A TV Licence is not just for TV sets

Watching TV on the internet
You need to be covered by a licence if you watch TV online at the same time as it's being broadcast on conventional TV in the UK or the Channel Islands.
Video recorders and digital recorders like Sky+
You need a licence if you record TV as it's broadcast, whether that's on a conventional video recorder or digital box.
Mobile phones
A licence covers you to watch TV as it's broadcast on a mobile phone, whether you're at home or out and about.


http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/

I can watch live tv on my computer should I wish to do so.
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