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From out of the darkness a great light appeared

PostPosted: Sat Sep 14, 2013 11:05 pm
by squark
This chap, I've seen his face before and back then whatever he said went way over my head. Listen what he says here

or here direct on You tube.

Here too
"In Europe another newly formed international body, the Council of Europe, set about giving effect to the UDHR in a European context. The resulting European Convention on Human Rights was signed in 1950 and ratified by the United Kingdom, "

Freedom of association. Dear the coucil tax, I want fuck all AND nothing to do with you!

Arrrrrgh. This fighting HURTS

Re: From out of the darkness a great light appeared

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:25 pm
by Rongo121
Hi Simon

I've just been browsing the Ministry of Justice site here:

There are some interesting guides on there such as : The human rights framework as a tool for regulators and inspectorates.

This is from that guide :

What is forced labour?
3.32 Article 4 also protects you from having to perform “forced or compulsory labour”. “Labour” is given a broad meaning, and can cover all kinds of work or service, not just physical work. It is “forced or compulsory” if you are made to do it by the threat of a punishment which you have not voluntarily accepted. The idea could apply to situations where immigrant staff have their passports removed to prevent them leaving work (though, of course, it is not the state who acts in this way).

So as i see it, the council force you to pay council tax with threats of punishment ( court actions, attachment of earnings, bankruptcy hearings etc.) thereby forcing you to labour for more hours to replace the money they stole.

How is that not forced labour?

Personally i've come to the conclusion that you can't trust any of their acts, as you can never be certain of the real meanings, may as well be written in Chinese.

Re: From out of the darkness a great light appeared

PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2013 7:37 pm
by squark
I'm liking the freedom of association from the UN Declaration of Human rights.
Association has Society as its root. If you have the right to join any society you surely have the right not to join a society.
Being in Stoke does not make one a member of Stoke Choral Society. Singing doesn't make one a member of Stoke Choral Society. Singing in Stoke doesn't, attending a concert doesn't, using their car park doesn't.

Being born on the British Isles can't (irrevocably) make one a member of whatever society has all these rules. The UK? A UK citizen? Non Citizen National I heard someone say!

My Granny was in Stafford hospital when it was bad. She got transferred but died within weeks. She was left to sit in her own shit, and left with nothing to drink. Hospitals are hot places. My Mum has cancer. She got the full poison and radiation treatment. I want Rick Simpsons oil available for her, not now, last year! Its even in the bible, all these plants are ours to use. That's Gods will (nice one big fella!) ! I can't cope with being forced to pay for that kind of treatment.

I think they do change, the government. This Declaration of rights stuff says EVERYONE has the right to Social Security. That sounds like Persons and Men too. The Eton Mess (Cameron) was talking about this Universal Credit, dole thing ( I am sick and tired of being unemployed!) and said It represents a new contract between the Government and Job Seekers. I think there is a chink of light there too! Contracts... I did ask and was told, you sign and search, you get the money! Nothing about must be a citizen or consent to anything! I specifically asked!

Does anyone think there is any point in going after the CEO of the local council. Their Customer Charter (Check it out Rongo!) says they will answer our questions. They didn't answer mine! Four time asked of general staff, no reply, so I wrote to the boss. He failed too. Negligence? The slimy bastards with have some cleverly worded total cop out no doubt and more pointless court time and costs (not that they totally undermined my faith that the courts are a place to go for justice or anything!)

This is the only topic in my entire life that winds me up. And it does REALLY wind me up. Even the guy I worked for that still owes me £1k in wages from 2 years ago....I've let it go, gone to peace.


Re: From out of the darkness a great light appeared

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:58 am
by Dreadlock
Hi guys.

The forced labour argument can also be approached from another angle, which is what I am using. The Council attempt to trick you into acting in a certain capacity/role/position (specifically a person) in order that they can make you liable for Council Tax. If you are acting in any role that is not your natural one at the request of someone else, then it follows that you are assuming a position and therefore working. You are therefore entitled to charge the Council, or anyone else, for that work which they are requesting you perform.

Of course the Council have no authority to force you to assume a role you do not want to assume. They also have no authority to force you to work for free should you choose to assume a role in expectation of payment for performance. Execution of any such force would constitute forcing people into involuntary servitude. I made all this clear to my council and they seem to be at a loss as to how to proceed. :giggle:

I backed it up with a notice of conditional acceptance requiring, of course, that they prove their claim by providing facts to support their assumptions as follows:

1. Proof that they have the authority to force a man of inherent jurisdiction, such as myself, to do business with them.
2. Proof that they have the authority to force me to act in any capacity without my consent.
3. Proof that as executor of my trust I have authorised its use for payment of Council Tax.
4. Proof that I am a Council Tax Payer.
5. Proof that I consent to act as a trustee of my trust on behalf of the Council.
6. Proof that I abide at my property in any capacity other than my natural one or as sole beneficiary of the trust of which I have equitable title and which holds absolute title to the property.
7. Proof that the Council has the authority to attach a condition, such as Council Tax, to a property held with absolute title. [as defined by the land registry]
8. Proof that I am resident (as defined in your favourite law dictionary - provide an extract)
9. Proof that I am an occupant (as above)

No response to the above as expected. Notice of dishonour to follow. There are even more assumptions that they make but I thought 9 would do. It's not as if they can answer any of them.

Hope this helps, but bare in mind I can't claim success yet. Too early.

Re: From out of the darkness a great light appeared

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:05 pm
by Rongo121
Hi Simon

Firstly I agree absolutely that your physical location does not make you a member of anything.

Marc Stevens makes that argument on

It sounds like what they did with your Granny was put her on the Liverpool care pathway, you can check that out here:
Apparently they actually get paid for using it, how sick is that?

I agree that governments can change but unfortunately it usually gets worse not better.

With regards to the word “Everyone” there is no listing in Blacks law dictionary, however I checked it out in a couple of standard English dictionaries and it is defined as: “every person”, no mention of a man.

I checked out the council charter and at the beginning it says “we aim to” and at the end it says “we are committed to a quality service”

So “we aim to answer letters within 5 working days” or “we aim to deal with complaints within 15 working days” does not obligate them to anything, they just missed a target as I see it.

“We are committed to a quality service” doesn’t say whether it’s a good quality service, or a crap quality service, just a quality service. (I’m guessing it’s a crap quality service)

However more importantly let’s not forget that it’s a “customer charter”. Are you their customer? Do you wish to be their customer?

That’s one of the questions I would ask them, “What facts/evidence do you rely on that I am your customer without my consent?”

If I were you I would try to avoid fighting any battles at the moment until your mum gets better, you have enough to worry about for the time being. Just use the time to research your strategy until your circumstances improve.

Hope your mum gets better soon.


Hi Dreadlock, good to hear you have the council a little perplexed; I look forward to hearing their reply, if they have one.

Your questions look good to me, but I think I would have used the word estate instead of trust. Just a feeling, I could be wrong.

Did you include a fee schedule if they want you to act in the role of a person? I think £20,000 per annum would be very reasonable.

I’ve still not heard from them, just using the time to gather questions for a notice or affidavit if they send a summons.

Best of luck.

Re: From out of the darkness a great light appeared

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:35 pm
by Dreadlock
Lol, are you psychic Rongo? £20,000 was exactly my asking price.

Liverpool pathway. I've seen it with my own eyes. At the time I was ignorant but now I know what to look for. Look for the patient being kept permanently drugged so as to be unconscious and not given food or water.
You'd think it would be hard for people not to notice that someone is being starved to death deliberately. Such is our ingrained faith in the medical profession that we miss the bloody obvious.

Re: From out of the darkness a great light appeared

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:38 pm
by Rongo121
Hi Dreadlock

Don't know about psychic, but they say all points in the universe are connected, so we must be vibrating at the same wavelength.

With regards to that Liverpool care pathway, i think there are some cases where it may be justified, such as if a patient has no chance of surviving and is in terrible pain. Then what would be the point of prolonging their suffering, but they should be made as comfortable as possible and their dignity should be respected.

But as soon as a monetary incentive is introduced, then it becomes inevitable that they will place as many patients as possible on it, regardless of whether they should be on it or not, just as long as they can get away with it.

Re: From out of the darkness a great light appeared

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:39 pm
by Rongo121
Thought you might find this interesting Simon.

It’s from “The collected works of Lysander Spooner Vol. 2 page 132”

But so long as the whole people are presumed to be voluntary parties to the government, and voluntary contributors to its support, there is no consistency in refusing to any one of them more than to another the right to sit as juror, with full power to decide for himself whether any law that is proposed to be enforced in any particular case, be within the objects of the association.

The conclusion therefore is that, in a government formed by voluntary association, or on the theory of voluntary association, and voluntary support, (as all the North American governments are) no law can rightfully be enforced by the association in its corporate capacity, against the goods, rights or person of any individual, except it be such as all the members of the association agree that it may enforce. To enforce any other law to the extent of taking a mans goods, rights or person, would be making some of the parties to the association accomplices in what they regard as acts of injustice. It would also be making them consent to what they regard as the destruction of their own rights. These are things which no legitimate system or theory of government can require of any of the parties to it.

Re: From out of the darkness a great light appeared

PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:17 pm
by Dreadlock
With regards to the Liverpool Pathway. It is done without the consent of the victim or, if the victim is unable to communicate, an appropriate family member/guardian. Quite simply it is murder.
It is almost always carried out on the elderly.