BIG MIKE and ME. POLICE BRUTALITY & unlawful arrests, Devon

Re: BIG MIKE and ME. POLICE BRUTALITY & unlawful arrests, Devon

Postby Hoops » Sun Jun 26, 2011 5:51 pm

pedawson.

Oh for god's sake. piece together whatever you want, and twist it into whatever conclusion makes you feel clever, I couldn't care less. If you want to propose I am a violent man, then fill your boots, it will only add to the list of things you are wrong about.

I don't want a gun or a taser, I have never once used my baton (except to fix a fence after a burglary), and I have Cs'd someone once to stop myself getting hurt. IF guns were given to us, I would carry one. For the one and only reason that in my job there is a certain degree of risk, hopefully very small, that someday I will be in a life threatening situation. If I am unlucky enough for that to happen, and a gun would be the difference between going home to my family and not, then yes, I would wish I had one. That is just self preservation, and a basic instinct we all share. I am against unnecessary violence spite and hurt in all ways and to all creatures, unfortunately that does not mean that such things are never necessary. There you go, cut out the words and rearrange however you want.

Interestingly, I have had long discussions with several freemen on the issue of gun licenses, and the freeman view is that we are all free to carry them if we want, and only committing a common law crime (which presumably would NOT include self defence) would present an issue. And yet as a police officer you are faux-mortified at the violence of my suggestion that I would carry one. You should decide if you want to eat that cake or keep looking at it. Just because I have a fist doesn't mean I have to punch you in the face with it. Doesn't mean I won't if I have to. (you as a general term, not you personally :grin: )

Chomerly.

Tasers are funny things. I don't know much about them, but they seem unpredictable, sometimes lethal, often unreliable. I have been on an operation with officers that carry them, and one night ended up being attacked by several people. I know I had to roll around and physically fight the people who were having a go at me, whereas the guy with the taser just pulled it out and shouted 'stop or I will tase you' and his fight was over before it started. That day I wanted a taser. And yet we see american cops tasing old ladies out of cars, or repeatedly firing them over and over at people who are quite clearly already incapacitated. I am not sure if this is an american mentality, as in the uk I don't think they would be treated the same way, but I would hate to see them used so casually over here. As I am sure you know, there are some awful usa youtube clips of cops with tasers using them like cattle prods.

There are derrick Bird or Raol Moat jobs where people would have lived if cops were armed better, and there would undoubtedly be times when it all went wrong if everyone were armed. I think there is a lot of wisdom in what chomerly says that tasers are easy to use, and maybe guns would be more carefully regulated and not become an easy device to abuse? Past this I am not really qualified to comment.I would be concerned that sometimes officers get into frightening situation, and when frightened we all have our decision making affected - using a gun because you are scared is ok in my eyes if your fear is justified, rationalised and it is a last line of defence, or defence of someone else - but surely, even with no malice, someone would use it in fear when a cold assessment would show that there were other options? No going back once the gun is fired. This is why, overall, I don't want to be put in the situation, and so fall down on the side of not wishing I carried one.
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Re: BIG MIKE and ME. POLICE BRUTALITY & unlawful arrests, Devon

Postby Freeman Stephen » Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:06 pm

i dont have a problem with people carrying guns but it gets pretty close to the line when those guns are designed for harming humans. whats definitely beyond the line is people carrying anti human guns demanding no one else does. the same principal applies to batons, tazers etc and it doesnt matter whether the human behaving in such a way has a letter from the galactic emperor of the universe saying they can behave that way, the behaviour is against peace and only serves to create or uphold the injustice of war.
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Re: BIG MIKE and ME. POLICE BRUTALITY & unlawful arrests, Devon

Postby woodman » Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:08 pm

Freeman Stephen wrote:Whats definitely beyond the line is people carrying anti human guns demanding no one else does. the same principal applies to batons, tazers etc and it doesnt matter whether the human behaving in such a way has a letter from the galactic emperor of the universe saying they can behave that way, the behaviour is against peace and only serves to create or uphold the injustice of war.


Ditto :yes:
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‘All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing’ - Edmund Burke (1729 - 1797)
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Re: BIG MIKE and ME. POLICE BRUTALITY & unlawful arrests, Devon

Postby treeman » Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:11 pm

All men have the right to bare arms as long as no loss, harm or injury occurs.
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Re: BIG MIKE and ME. POLICE BRUTALITY & unlawful arrests, Devon

Postby Hoops » Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:26 pm

I find this very difficult. I fundamentally agree with you, and yet know that there are many more gun deaths in america because they operate on that basis. In the states, someone comes in your house at night to do harm to you or your property, you shoot them and its their fault for putting you in that position. I can't see how that can be wrong. Personally, I keep a big dog instead.
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Re: BIG MIKE and ME. POLICE BRUTALITY & unlawful arrests, Devon

Postby treeman » Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:45 pm

I was in the company of Iron mike yesterday and relived in great detail, the brutal and unlawful treatment of these peaceful human beings by company policy officers, they are not doing the force any good, and each time it occurs to non violent, non criminal, peaceful inhabitants of this land, the more hardlined individuals will become. Or do you think this is the intent of those with status.
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Re: BIG MIKE and ME. POLICE BRUTALITY & unlawful arrests, Devon

Postby pedawson » Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:04 pm

My use of your posts has nothing to do with the right to carry or not. You have attacked my right to air my views by calling them vitriol, I did state I was not angry I spoke my truth.

On the other hand, and I have no need to 'piece together' anything. And if you can find where I contradict myself, go ahead.

I merely pointed out that WE are not the only ones who have stated that violence may be necessary. I do not condone it, but if the push comes to shove I will not back away from it.
I may add that I am not in uniform and I am not the one who is ENFORCING unlawful legislation.

I thank you for accepting that I am clever as opposed to smart, I like to think my views are not over radical but fair.
Isn't it strange how 'BURGLARY' always crops up when one speaks to a copper, training I suppose (NLP) common purpose. How much did your constabulary spend on CP?

You see, what you fail to see is that the populace is being systematically stripped of its wealth, and this includes you. However your salary is guaranteed by 'WE THE PEOPLE' and those you chase for burglary and the like may just have found themselves in that position because they were less well off than you. Jobs are on the decline, state benefits will be cut, tax in about to increase, pension is / has been stolen, the NHS is all but buggered and the police are out in force, enforcing bailiffs to strip further assets from the people who pay their wages.
How about the census? WILL you enforce the FINE will you help in the collection of this revenue? Parking fines minor speeding tickets, boisterousness. The places where kids used to be able to gather and be constructive are GONE because the SYSTEM needs that money for war, and bank bonuses, Will you/ would you assist in the eviction of a householder because they defaulted?

For millennium the police force has kept britain (Albion) safe from thugs and robbers and all this is noted, and they still do but that is the JOB, NOT the other stuff. And don't tell me you actually believe for one minute that crap they ram down our throats about TERRORISTS, or CO2,because it is crap.
TERRORISTS are after the PTB because of what they are doing in their countries not me, granted I may get harmed but it is not because of the TERRORISTS it is because of our government bringing a fight we should not be part of to our shores.
The TERRORISTS are your bosses in parliament, or at least the traitors, is what I mean.

Concentrate on where the real problem is and not on some petty bickering housewife squabble over money, Solve the economics by bringing our industry back to this, our country - create employment and you troubles will be halved.

Naive, I think not.

When this starts to happen I will once again support the police, but while they chase debt for the revenue it brings for their masters - you can count me out.
Am I angry NO!
Has my stance changed NO!
Do I think violence is necessary? reasonable force and if it includes guns, so be it, but remember the police have guns and as you mention WILL use them. So I believe I may have to use one to protect myself from the police.
Have I quoted anything out of place, NO!

The escalation of violence is more and more coming from the police, surely the police know we have a right to protest - yet even in the news today we hear of police provocateurs stirring the violence stakes so they can go in and arrest innocent people, OLD MEN and WOMEN particularly. Large METAL batons at the ready hitting and slashing from behind a barrier.

I am sorry you don't see this, your job has changed dramatically, and although I have said in the past and in PM's I am not against you personally but what you and the police stand for. Your naivete astounds me that you believe nothing is going wrong outside your patch and your mates are good eggs, which may be the case but your attitude will soon change when the proverbial hits the fan, partly because you dug your head in the sand hopeful your patch doesn't get involved.
The policies the police enforce are unjust and corrupt, the police may not like them but the police enforce them and it is taking them in a direct line to confrontation at all levels with the 'PUBLIC'.

You say in the intro to your post. Oh for god's sake. I repeat that sentiment. For god's sake get you head from up your arse and smell the roses. The police are becoming a part of the problem if they aren't already.

I would like to say in the long run you may be useful in our cause, but you have on many occasions refused to commit.

Namaste, phil
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Re: BIG MIKE and ME. POLICE BRUTALITY & unlawful arrests, Devon

Postby Hoops » Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:23 pm

You have attacked my right to air my views by calling them vitriol


No. I have merely exercised my right to point out that the views you were airing were bilious tripe. I'll say it again for the cheap seats:

My interjection on this thread was regarding one thing and one thing only. You stated that all police, and by default then, me, would NOT CARE THAT OUR CHILDREN DIED because we are scum. I can refer you back to the exact sentence if you like. Musashi then referred to police deserving to be RAPED by police hating people.

WHO THINKS THESE STATEMENTS ARE JUSTIFIED, AND WORTHY OF A PEACEFUL CAUSE????????? ANYONE????

Only one or two of you have had the good grace to suggest that such sentiment is wrong. The rest stay quiet, whilst accusing me of 'closing ranks', as is always the charge.

Who else wants to go on record and say they believe I deserve to be raped and that I wouldn't care if my children died, because I am police, and therefore scum.

Read the words. Read the words and tell me that is who you are, and I will tell you that it is YOU who are scum for wishing such things on a peaceful man. THAT IS MY ONLY POINT ON THIS THREAD. I STAND BY IT, AND I AM RIGHT. You can divert and obfuscate however you like, but I do not wish such vile acts on anyone, nor do I suggest anyone can not care about the deaths of those they love by virtue of their profession. If you do, then you can take your freeman rhetoric and go to hell with it. That is not about being a freeman, or having an ideal, or wishing for a better world, that is about you, and I hold you in no regard for it. So let's not argue further, it serves no purpose, and I doubt others want to read it.


Isn't it strange how 'BURGLARY' always crops up when one speaks to a copper, training I suppose


Really? You think the fact that I mention a burglary as the only time I used my baton to fix something is a product of some masterplan devised to control you? That it is because I am programmed to speak of burglary? Get a grip.
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Re: BIG MIKE and ME. POLICE BRUTALITY & unlawful arrests, Devon

Postby Hoops » Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:27 pm

I apologise, I did not intend to hijack this thread, I will once again, reluctantly and sadly, remove the forums from my favourites, as it seems my involvement inevitably causes frustration and confrontation. This is not my intent. The day people realise that someone who does my job having an interest in your views is a positive thing and not worthy of constant attack is the day we stand a better chance of maintaining collaborative and positive dialogue. :peace: :police:
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Re: BIG MIKE and ME. POLICE BRUTALITY & unlawful arrests, Devon

Postby woodman » Sun Jun 26, 2011 7:43 pm

Hoops wrote:Who else wants to go on record and say they believe I deserve to be raped and that I wouldn't care if my children died, because I am police, and therefore scum.


I do not think you deserve to be raped, I beleive you would care very much if your children died, you are not scum. I know of many Police Officers who are scum, but I don't believe that you are one of them.

I say what what I think regardless of what other freemen, people or police think.
‘Emancipate yourself from mental slavery, no one but ourselves can free our minds’- Robert Nesta Marley (1945 - 1981)

‘All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing’ - Edmund Burke (1729 - 1797)
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