12 Notices sent and various replies received any suggestions

Re: 12 Notices sent and various replies received any suggestions

Postby aquavit » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:00 am

Yes, it would be nice to hear an update. Given the scale of his situation I hope he's coping alright and making some progress.
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Re: 12 Notices sent and various replies received any suggestions

Postby emerald city » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:05 pm

To: Steve 2577.

Steve I am not as qualified as the other poster at all. I am only a learner.

But to get that blood pressure down, I would take magnesium sulphite, (cheap as chips), this is only my personal opinion, the choice is yours, it will also calm you. That's what I did.

Check up on any magnesium site or yourself.

Good luck fighting the system that entraps you.
good health always. :hug:
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Re: 12 Notices sent and various replies received any suggestions

Postby steve2577 » Sun Jan 24, 2010 3:36 pm

Hi Everyone not topped myself yet?

I now have about 1 big trees worth of paper and can assure you that they dont go away th wheels turn and thought you might like an update.

I can only give you some facts but thought it would be useful to summarise.

The crux of the issue is show me a lawfull agreement and I will pay what I owe.

Eventually a court appeareance of some sort is inevitable.

If you ignore then you are doomed this is what they want an easy win by default.

I can provide references and case facts if required but to keep this post simple please trust me that I have all teh facts, I have spent the last 2 months researching this and feel like Rumpole of the Bailey right now.

Bad News

The credit management cmpanies relied on agreements being unenforceable and this new ruling has hi them hard, but they are saying this is great news and in a way it is.

The details below refer to agrements taken out prior to 2007 and therefore fall under the CCA Act 1974 which was amended in 1983 and therefore for an agreement to be enforced by a court it has to adhere to certain prescribed terms as set out in section 127 etc so even if the Judge wanted to enforce he cannot if the agreement does not adhere to the prescribed terms. Section 127 does not apply for agreements taken out after 2007 and it is much easier for a CC comapny to get an agreement enforced.

If you take the first move and force the issue then you are doomed as the courts now accept a reconstituted agrement and this refers to a recent ruling in the Manchester courts (Dec 23rd Judge Wakesman). This means that arguing the enforceability no matter what the argument is will not work. The Judge in the Manchester case said that a reconstituted agreement is valid as long as the agreement was the same as what would of been drawn up at the time the agreement was taken out. Basically an unsigned document can be produced and is accepted and I can assure that even though it is not signed by any party it is watertight.

Good News

If the CC companies want to enforce the debt they have to go to court and they then have to produce the original document and it then has to adhere to all the prescribed terms and conditions. (defending a case is different).

Example Amex sent an agreement that was not readable I asked for a readable copy they wrote back saying they will look into my complaint and get back to me they did get back to me with a Default Notice.

Tesco admitted they couldn't find any agreement but hav not gone away they have produced a re-constituted agreement but I know at the crunch this is worthless I just need to defend any claim.

RBS sent a letter admitting thy couldn't find the agreement and also admitted they couldn't enforce but then went on to say there are other options open to us to reclaim any monies (looking forward to finding out what those other options are)

Barclaycard what a laugh they sent 2 reconstituted agreements and then on the third issue which was previously Morgan Stanley they found a copy which doesnt have any of the prescribed terms and just goes on about PPI Insurance it is a joke and they also sent a copy of the Barclayvcard terms and conditions which they state was in force at the time of the agreement now bearing in mind the agreement was dated 1999 and Barclaycard only bought the Morgan Stanley business in 2008 that how can this be.

Capital One want me to sign something before they produce anything and I am not poropared to do this but they have also issued a default notice but one day as long as I defend any action they will have to produce one to get it enforced.

Basically its all about intimidation and threats and they make a big issue about having a default notice on your file but the reality is if you've got one then it makes no difference how many you have your credit rating is trashed but so what.

So at this point I'm not as stressed as I was and obviously could do without the hassle feel that as long as I play the same game as they play I should be OK but if I ignore or rely on a Judge being sympathetic to my position I have no chance at all. The establishment is on the same side and unless I want to involve a Barrister at huge costs the easy option for me is to defend any action on the day.

I hope I haven't dissappointed anybody on this site by not going down the route which some of you advise I know your heart is in the right place and I know you are right in fact without the encouragement I recieved I might have caved in.

I would be happy to clarify and even help anybody if I can it's not easy getting to grips with everything.



Regards
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Re: 12 Notices sent and various replies received any suggestions

Postby aquavit » Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:58 pm

Thanks for taking the trouble to update Steve, it makes interesting and informative reading for those of us engaged in the same battle.
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Re: 12 Notices sent and various replies received any suggestions

Postby shinobi » Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:02 pm

Example Amex sent an agreement that was not readable I asked for a readable copy they wrote back saying they will look into my complaint and get back to me they did get back to me with a Default Notice.


Amex have a habit of screwing up default notices. If it says you must pay "within 14 days of the date of this letter" then it is only valid if they came to your house and put the notice in your hand on the day it was printed.

They have to allow 2 working days for 1st class post, then 14 clear days for you to remedy the breach. It's well worth you posting this one on the consumer forums under "debt collection industry" They know Amex and their dodgy DN's very well on there.

If you get an enenforceable agreement, or defective DN Amex will pass your account round 3 or 4 DCA's who will try to bullshit and scare you. I haven't heard from them for a few months now. :grin:
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Re: 12 Notices sent and various replies received any suggestions

Postby kacilee123 » Mon Jan 25, 2010 12:02 am

ask them for proof of any consideration they gave you credit cannot be proved
steve2577 wrote:Hi Everybody I am new to the site but have been followoing things for a few months this is my first post so I hope it doesn't annoy anybody if I go over some old ground.

I am currently out of work and have been struggling with debt for many years I have tried to manage the situation but it has taken it's toll with my working life, family life and health in short I am desperate but have a strong belief in the principals of the other members of this site, I have always wanted to help others in any situation but now find myself for the first time asking for help and encouragement from others, I hope this doesn't offend in anyway.

I have sent 12 notices to various CC companies following the standard template styles and signed in Gold Ink as (firstname in lower case:surname which is signed.

I have received a reply from Tesco CC which clearly states they have been unable to locate a copy of my original application on their system and are unable to assist me.

I received a photocopy of a blank contract from Barclaycard.

I received some strong demands from both Lloyds and HFC but as yet nothing ref any contract.

The one worrying me is from American Express which is like a large file and they have managed to locate and produce a photocopy of my original contract with them and it is this that I really need some advice on.


Many Regards steve
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Re: 12 Notices sent and various replies received any suggestions

Postby kevin » Mon Jan 25, 2010 7:12 pm

steve2577 wrote:Hi Everyone not topped myself yet?

I now have about 1 big trees worth of paper and can assure you that they dont go away th wheels turn and thought you might like an update.

I can only give you some facts but thought it would be useful to summarise.

The crux of the issue is show me a lawfull agreement and I will pay what I owe.

Eventually a court appeareance of some sort is inevitable.

If you ignore then you are doomed this is what they want an easy win by default.

I can provide references and case facts if required but to keep this post simple please trust me that I have all teh facts, I have spent the last 2 months researching this and feel like Rumpole of the Bailey right now.

Bad News

The credit management cmpanies relied on agreements being unenforceable and this new ruling has hi them hard, but they are saying this is great news and in a way it is.

The details below refer to agrements taken out prior to 2007 and therefore fall under the CCA Act 1974 which was amended in 1983 and therefore for an agreement to be enforced by a court it has to adhere to certain prescribed terms as set out in section 127 etc so even if the Judge wanted to enforce he cannot if the agreement does not adhere to the prescribed terms. Section 127 does not apply for agreements taken out after 2007 and it is much easier for a CC comapny to get an agreement enforced.

If you take the first move and force the issue then you are doomed as the courts now accept a reconstituted agrement and this refers to a recent ruling in the Manchester courts (Dec 23rd Judge Wakesman). This means that arguing the enforceability no matter what the argument is will not work. The Judge in the Manchester case said that a reconstituted agreement is valid as long as the agreement was the same as what would of been drawn up at the time the agreement was taken out. Basically an unsigned document can be produced and is accepted and I can assure that even though it is not signed by any party it is watertight.

Good News

If the CC companies want to enforce the debt they have to go to court and they then have to produce the original document and it then has to adhere to all the prescribed terms and conditions. (defending a case is different).

Example Amex sent an agreement that was not readable I asked for a readable copy they wrote back saying they will look into my complaint and get back to me they did get back to me with a Default Notice.

Tesco admitted they couldn't find any agreement but hav not gone away they have produced a re-constituted agreement but I know at the crunch this is worthless I just need to defend any claim.

RBS sent a letter admitting thy couldn't find the agreement and also admitted they couldn't enforce but then went on to say there are other options open to us to reclaim any monies (looking forward to finding out what those other options are)

Barclaycard what a laugh they sent 2 reconstituted agreements and then on the third issue which was previously Morgan Stanley they found a copy which doesnt have any of the prescribed terms and just goes on about PPI Insurance it is a joke and they also sent a copy of the Barclayvcard terms and conditions which they state was in force at the time of the agreement now bearing in mind the agreement was dated 1999 and Barclaycard only bought the Morgan Stanley business in 2008 that how can this be.

Capital One want me to sign something before they produce anything and I am not poropared to do this but they have also issued a default notice but one day as long as I defend any action they will have to produce one to get it enforced.

Basically its all about intimidation and threats and they make a big issue about having a default notice on your file but the reality is if you've got one then it makes no difference how many you have your credit rating is trashed but so what.

So at this point I'm not as stressed as I was and obviously could do without the hassle feel that as long as I play the same game as they play I should be OK but if I ignore or rely on a Judge being sympathetic to my position I have no chance at all. The establishment is on the same side and unless I want to involve a Barrister at huge costs the easy option for me is to defend any action on the day.

I hope I haven't dissappointed anybody on this site by not going down the route which some of you advise I know your heart is in the right place and I know you are right in fact without the encouragement I recieved I might have caved in.

I would be happy to clarify and even help anybody if I can it's not easy getting to grips with everything.



Regards




What a change this is from the panic in your first post Steve, looks like your taking control away from these Muppets...good on ya!! these dicks ought to remember without people taking credit they're all down the job centre, mind you...it's where they belong

Keep up the good work and keep us posted
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Re: 12 Notices sent and various replies received any suggestions

Postby steve2577 » Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:12 pm

Something which might be of use

I dont want to post the exact details on here because they might read it and change the procedures.

I can only assure you that I estimate 12 out of the 13 default Notices I have received or will receive will be defective.

And if they terminate with a defective Default Notice thats great because the likelyhood of getting a strike out before court proceedings is high.

You want to aim for Strike out as this means the debt is finished does not dissapear but can never return. Otherwise even if you win in court it can come back via a DCA.

I am now fully tooled up so to speak on the following

CCA agreements quite a lot to study here and also take into account the recent OFT guidelines produced on 27th Jan 2010

Default Notices

Court Proceedings

Holding; Embarrassed and full defence if and when it all happens in fact almost looking forward to the battle now.

Again and this is not an advert but there is a device called Truecall that filters all incoming calls I have probably received 2,000 calls of which maybe 30 were from family and friends out of the 2,000 I only answered 30 guess which ones.



Hope it doesnt sound to cocky I know I am only halfway there but somebody might get something from the thread and these last 2 postings




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Re: 12 Notices sent and various replies received any suggestions

Postby steve2577 » Mon Mar 08, 2010 6:38 pm

1st Court Case Claim issued I have filed a defence.




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Re: 12 Notices sent and various replies received any suggestions

Postby nameless » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:43 pm

Hi steve2577

Is there an update? Do hope you are still coping well.
“Whoever may be guilty of abuse of power, be it Government, State, Employer, Trade Union or whoever, the law must provide a speedy remedy. Otherwise the victims will find their own remedy."

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