Plea "do not accept charges"? PLEASE HELP!

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Plea "do not accept charges"? PLEASE HELP!

Postby aidney » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:00 pm

Hi,

I am posting this thread to ask for help or advice, or for someone to point me in the right direction. I do not expect a quick fix, I am in a desperate situation and I genuinely need help. Please do not abuse me. When my partner first posted on this forum asking for advice and trying to understand better, he was abused by a certain member who called him ignorant and went off on an unnecessary rant. So before you start abusing me, I have read Veronica's book. Several times. I am familiar and am trying to be more involved in the freeman movement but there are many things which are not yet clear to me and that is why I am here. Thanks.

So this is the situation. My partner's old business involved selling pharmaceutical machinery. He stopped trading in about August 2010. In April 2011, he was approached by SOCA (Serious Organised Crime Agency) as one of his machines had been found on a farm in Wales and was being used to produce ecstasy tablets. He was asked to give a witness statement, which he agreed to and in June 2011 a couple of SOCA officers came round to collect his statement. I was a witness to this meeting and it soon became clear that he was not being treated as a witness, but more like a suspect. They were threatening him and generally being very unpleasant bullies. He was asked to supply some more information which he did not have available at the time, notably a list of his previous clients, phone records and invoices. A few weeks later, the guy in charge started harrassing him. My partner decided that enough was enough and informed the guy in question that he did not have a contract with his company and that any consent he believed he may have had from him was withdrawn. He also notified (reminded?) him that providing him with clients' details would go against the Data Protection Act 1998 and he did not wish to do that. He made a complaint against said officer to the IPCC, which has yet to be resolved.

We had no more news from these bullies until 24th August, when they were waiting outside our house for us when we left for work in the morning. They had a warrant to search our house. While we protested, stated that we did not give consent, and I pointed out that it was unlawful, it soon became clear that they would do it by force. So we let them in. They took laptops, phones, harddrives, etc., (many of which have still not been returned). Then, on 13th October, they came to arrest us. I spent 15 hours in custody and was questioned twice, until they finally released me on bail. Part of me regrets answering their questions now, however I feel that if I hadn't, they would have done to me what they did to my partner... He remained silent, stating that anything he wished to say would be said in front of a jury of his peers. They charged him with Conspiracy to supply and he was refused bail the next day in court. I have yet to be charged, however a meeting with his solicitor yesterday informed me that they could very well charge me just to get him to admit to everything.

As you can guess, my partner is not guilty of conspiracy. All he did was (unknowingly) supply a machine to someone who then used it for illegal purposes. Note that I say 'illegal'. We both believe that a lot of this has to do with revenge for the complaint he filed against this corrupt SOCA officer. Speaking to his solicitor yesterday confirmed our fears - we have got "a bad one" (according to the solicitor).

ANYWAY. My main question is: Can my partner put in a plea of "do not accept charges"? His solicitor seems to think it is unlikely that he will get bail. The plea hearing is on 9th December, but the trial date probably won't be until March. In the meantime, he is stuck in prison on remand, miles away from home AND they will probably soon move him to another prison about 2 and half hours away by car from where we live. Any advice or information relating to the question in the subject or any other point in my long story would be VERY much appreciated. If you cannot help, please at least point me in the right direction.

Thank you very much.
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Re: Plea "do not accept charges"? PLEASE HELP!

Postby MikeThomas » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:27 pm

Sorry to see this is still ongoing Aidney! You should check for yourself the laws relating to conspiracy and ask the solicitor about obtaining a writ of 'Habeas Corpus'. This is asking them to prove the lawfulness of your husbands detention. Also question the refusal of bail. They must give a reason for refusal!

Now, as your husband is 'banged up' then we can assume that the courts have established 'contract' with him and, unfortunately, he is now 'in the system', and you should use the solicitor now that you've gone down this path.

To put things in perspective: If I sold you a gun (pretend it's legal for this purpose) and you shot someone, would I be responsible for the shooting......... or would it be the one who pulled the trigger?

Your husband sold the machine in good faith for the purpose it was designed...........making tablets. How is he to know what some reprobate might (or might not!) do with it.

As for the 'Do not accept the charges' plea I would go with the choices available.... Guilty or Not Guilty.

Always remember it is up to the prosecution to prove 'Beyond reasonable doubt' that your husband 'conspired'. Now ask yourself a question: As the product your husband sold was publicly advertised, how can a vendor conspire with a buyer?
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Re: Plea "do not accept charges"? PLEASE HELP!

Postby knightron » Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:16 pm

I am really sorry to hear of your situation and I hope you are keeping your chin up in the hope that common sense and Common law will prevail. As Mike stated above The burden of proof in upon them, they have to prove that your husband has made an agreement with "someone" to use a machine illegally or for illegal purposes.

When anybody is facing charges and they have a solicitor, you HAVE to Instruct the solicitor, Not just leave it to them to "make a pretty penny" out of your situation.
Instruct them Daily on making sure that your Husbands welfare is being taken care of as far as is possible in Prison on Remand and that they are scrutinizing the documentation that the prosecution is using as evidence, ( I did not do this and ended up with 7 years up my backside) Ask them Daily what is happening and if there are any new documents you need to know about and what you need to do to help with the defence.

If you are not happy with your solicitor and they are not informing you or trying to fob you off, sack them and get someone else who is willing and able to take instruction on a daily basis, easier said that done I know.

Statutory Conspiracy. Criminal Law Act 1977

Offence: Statutory Conspiracy. Criminal Law Act 1977
Statutory conspiracy is defined by section 1 of the criminal law act 1977

Under section 1(1) if a person agrees with any other person or persons that a course of conduct shall be pursued which, if the agreement is carried out in accordance with their
intentions, either -
(a) will necessarily amount to or involve the commission of any offence or offences by one or more of the parties to the agreement, or
(b) would do so but for the existence of facts which render the commission of the offence or any of the offences impossible,

He is guilty of conspiracy to commit the offence or offences in question.

Accordingly, it is an offence to agree to commit any criminal offence even one which is tryable only summarily. However, by section 4 a conspiracy to commit a summary only offence can only be prosecuted by or with the consent of the director of public prosecutions.

Penalties: Statutory Conspiracy. Criminal Law Act 1977
Statutory conspiracy is triable only on indictment. A person convicted under section 1 is liable to a sentence of imprisonment for a term not exceeding the maximum provided for the offence that he has conspired to commit.


Have a look Here Legal determination is a minefield and is something I am not qualified to give advice on. So Please don't construe any of this post as Advice, I am only trying to tell you what I might do in your situation or a similar one.
Please pass on my best wishes to your Husband, and my thoughts are with you both at this bad time in your lives.
All the best ..Knight.. :hug: :shake: :hug:
ʎɐqǝ uo pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ı ǝɯıʇ ʇsɐן ǝɥʇ sı sıɥʇ
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Re: Plea "do not accept charges"? PLEASE HELP!

Postby pedawson » Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:06 pm

Sorry to hear you believe your husband was bullied the last time he asked for info. I have read through the posts and cannot understand how he / you feel he was called 'ignorant'. He received some good sound responses and seemed to be happy with what he got.
He has used some of the info so far, as far as I can read and so far is still NOT guilty nor has he made any statements that can get him in trouble.
The thing that is necessary is for him to STAY 'quiet', as I pointed out in one of my responses anything that will go against him will be what HE says 'himself'.
It is important that he know that he say nothing until trial, what I do not understand is what the hell is his lawyer doing?

He has a right to see everything that is being used to prosecute him and once he sees what they have he will know what it is he needs as a defence.

When he sold this equipment, were there any transaction documents? Did he know the guy he sold it to? are there any others involved whom he knows? What is it other than the equipment that ties him to the allegation?

For the authorities to hold him in custody, they MUST have something pretty water tight, if not they are in for one hell of a counter suit.
You must get hold of the lawyer and get him / her to start a counter suit for wrongful custody and make it a claim that will cover ALL losses due to not being at large and able to provide a living for him and yourself and include your distress as well as his.

Remember you may be a witness to your husbands sale, you should act and do as you think your husband would 'as if it were you inside' and fight with all you have.
Collect as many details as you can regarding your husbands movements prior, during and after the sale, what you spent the proceeds on, Why he had the equipment in the first place, the advert in the paper. Get a criminal record clearance certificate for your husband; this goes to showing he has not been involved in drugs prior to the arrest. If he has a clean driving licence. Every scrap of information you can get may help his cause and MAY just come in handy - Get as many references as you can to prove he is of good character; shop assistants, ex boss, credit card details.

It sounds as though your husband is being stitched up and the more you can prove or answer when asked the better the situation becomes for him.

But MOST of all and the MOST important is the counter claim, YOU and he NEED to be ready the instant he is released with all the details and costs.

Get busy 'girl' you have a lot of work to do, use your common sense there is no time to try to be anything other than quick of thought and slow of tongue. Remember what ever you say to the authorities will come right back at you so be sure of anything you say to them, even if it is a slip of the tongue it WILL be used against you and your husband. This is what I said initially and it is VERY important to be careful, especially with what is going on.
He seems to have taken good council so far. Hold on it may not be nice but you will get through it.

Keep us informed.

Namaste, rev;
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Re: Plea "do not accept charges"? PLEASE HELP!

Postby wanabfree » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:30 pm

i have just read a smll part of your post and i too am realy sorry for the situation your caught up in.

but don't feel defeated, as you may have found a lot of the freeman stuff can get you into trouble in certain situations such as these.

i would recomend takeing a look at this site : http://marcstevens.net/

i would also say get in touch with Marc by email and explain the situation, he may be able to offer suggestions also.

you can get his book on pdf it's about a fiver and well worth reading.
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Re: Plea "do not accept charges"? PLEASE HELP!

Postby aidney » Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:21 pm

Thanks to all of you who took the time to reply.

Pedawson, you're right, I apologise, there was no mention of the word 'ignorant', however at the time we were both shocked by the reply as it seemed rather harsh. But yes, he has tried to follow the advice that was given to him and it has been very helpful.

I went to see him on Thursday and he had received the brief from the solicitor. Although I haven't been able to see it yet, he has told me that it included extracts from my interview and I realise now how stupid I was by answering their questions. They have COMPLETELY twisted a lot of the things I said. I know you will all shout at me, but is there anything I can do to put this right? The only reason I spoke was because I thought I wouldn't release me if I didn't. I am right in thinking this? I AM naive, because I have never been involved in anything like this before.

Anyway, in the meantime, I am getting busy gathering anything and anyone I can that will help.

I'll keep you updated.

Take care x
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Re: Plea "do not accept charges"? PLEASE HELP!

Postby treeman » Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:37 pm

aidney wrote:Thanks to all of you who took the time to reply.

Pedawson, you're right, I apologise, there was no mention of the word 'ignorant', however at the time we were both shocked by the reply as it seemed rather harsh. But yes, he has tried to follow the advice that was given to him and it has been very helpful.

I went to see him on Thursday and he had received the brief from the solicitor. Although I haven't been able to see it yet, he has told me that it included extracts from my interview and I realise now how stupid I was by answering their questions. They have COMPLETELY twisted a lot of the things I said. I know you will all shout at me, but is there anything I can do to put this right? The only reason I spoke was because I thought I wouldn't release me if I didn't. I am right in thinking this? I AM naive, because I have never been involved in anything like this before.

Anyway, in the meantime, I am getting busy gathering anything and anyone I can that will help.

I'll keep you updated.

Take care x

freeman_reverend writes
aidney, thanks for the apology but it isn't necessary I totally understand that you thoght I was being tough. Let me assusre you that was and is with love.
We are not playing a game here and when things get to where they have got with your situation it is the truth you require and not filled with cotton wool and delicate statements.
Let me apologise for coming across the way I did.
What you need to do now is to get down to the police station and recant your statement. They cannot use it if you have recanted it.
If they ask why, tell them it was given under duress.

Namaste, rev; under treemans account
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Re: Plea "do not accept charges"? PLEASE HELP!

Postby rebelwithoutaclue » Sat Oct 29, 2011 10:53 pm

aidney wrote:Thanks to all of you who took the time to reply.

Pedawson, you're right, I apologise, there was no mention of the word 'ignorant', however at the time we were both shocked by the reply as it seemed rather harsh. But yes, he has tried to follow the advice that was given to him and it has been very helpful.

I went to see him on Thursday and he had received the brief from the solicitor. Although I haven't been able to see it yet, he has told me that it included extracts from my interview and I realise now how stupid I was by answering their questions. They have COMPLETELY twisted a lot of the things I said. I know you will all shout at me, but is there anything I can do to put this right? The only reason I spoke was because I thought I wouldn't release me if I didn't. I am right in thinking this? I AM naive, because I have never been involved in anything like this before.

Anyway, in the meantime, I am getting busy gathering anything and anyone I can that will help.

I'll keep you updated.


Take care x


If it was a statement you made and they are using it against him then you could withdraw the statement. But carefull u don't get yourself into trouble by doing so
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Re: Plea "do not accept charges"? PLEASE HELP!

Postby aidney » Sun Oct 30, 2011 1:02 pm

Can I recant/withdraw my statement even though I was arrested and released on bail? Can they not still use my first statement as they cautioned me beforehand? Also can I just go to the police station where they questioned me? It was SOCA who 'interrogated' me and they are based in Southampton.

Do you think there is anything else I can do to help prove my partner is of good character to help him get bail? Or even get the charges dismissed?

Thanks again for all your help.
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Re: Plea "do not accept charges"? PLEASE HELP!

Postby aidney » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:32 am

Hi,

So an update. He is still not out and getting pretty fed up. The solicitor says the thing standing in the way of him getting bail is that they are saying that on the first bail they found a kilo of a substance containing a class A drug. There is a resulting charge of possession with intent to supply a class A drug. In fact, what this substance ACTUALLY is, is 900g Mimosa Hostilis root bark powder, used to make shamanic tea. Which you can LEGALLY BUY ON THE INTERNET!!!!! It so happens to contain less than 0.5% DMT, which happens to be a class A drug. So they seem to be using this against him getting bail. I can just imagine their corrupt psychopathic eyes lighting up when they got the results back. The solicitor has applied for a copy of the analyst's report to help in the bail application, but they are dragging their feet.

I am exhausted and don't know where else to look to help him. It has been 3 and a half weeks - might not seem like a long time, but if you put it into perspective, over a lifetime that is actually a long time for a free human being to be locked up in a cage. Especially an innocent one. I have looked into Habeas Corpus, but can't seem to get further than an definition and some unsuccessful cases of 'terrorists' not being released.

Any thoughts...?
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