Trouble with SOCA, Please Help!

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Trouble with SOCA, Please Help!

Postby Resist » Sun Aug 28, 2011 12:21 pm

Hey everyone,

I have had a lot of trouble from SOCA (Serious Organised Crime Agency) over the last three months or so. SOCA contacted me towards the end of May 2011 whilst I was on holiday in India. They requested that I give them information about a sale of a machine (tablet press) from my previous business that supplied pharmaceutical machinery, to a client a year or so ago. Basically this client has been using one of my machines for illegal activities and the police want information from me.

The SOCA officer in contact with me stated I was a witness in this case and provided me with a written request to provide them with the information they want under 'Section 34 of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005'. I have since given them all the information I have (which isn't much as my records aren't exactly great), however they are still not happy. They've even been round to my house and taken a statement from me. During this meeting they certainly weren't treating me as a 'witness', instead they were trying to scare me and were implying that if I didn't give them this information they would hold me has a suspect, they even threatened to seize my laptop! They have details of all of my bank transactions and were pointing out transfers expecting me to tell them exactly where it came from.

To push my frustration and anxiety even further these police are now requesting that I give them ALL details of ALL of my clients from my previous business. When I said they have no right to ask for this they shouted at me. I don't know the exact law but I'm sure police cannot just request details of all clients from a business owner.
I have since had my house 'raided' (burgled), laptops and electronic storage devices 'seized' (stolen) as well as other items. I have been treated like shit and pushed around by these robots. Let me explain...

So not long after the meeting I had with the two SOCA afficers I was contacted by SOCA again via email, requesting that I give details of all transactions and orders relating to my old business. I decided to ignore this email. Around 3-4 weeks later I received another email stating that if I did not provide them with the information they requested they would 'escalate' things further. Attached to this email was a request form; SECTION 34 – SERIOUS ORGANISED CRIME AND POLICE ACT (2005)
REQUEST FOR INFORMATION (I can attach a copy here if anyone wants to see it?). I responded to this email with the following:

I've been doing my own research into law and the 'legal system'. It is well within my jurisdiction to not cooperate and help you any further. I have given you all the information I have and do not consent to any further cooperation with your company. I do not have a contract with you and any permission that you believe you may have from me is hereby withdrawn.

Furthermore your request is not in accordance with the Data Protection Act 1998 and it would therefore be illegal for me to provide you with the information you request.

I am not happy with the way I have been treated by yourself, I have not been treated as a 'witness', but more like a suspect, when I have done absolutely nothing against the law. Threatening and bullying me has had and will have the exact opposite outcome to the one that you desire.

I am also making a formal request for a copy of the warrant/court order that gave you access to my bank account as I have good reason to suspect that there was no such court order. I have also requested this from HSBC. I hope that you can provide this for me.

I will be making an official complaint about the way that I have been treated. I have nothing further to say to you and feel I have helped you as much as I can.


I got no response from this email. I was not provided with a copy of the warrant/court order that gave them access to my bank account. I filed a complaint with the IPCC, which I assume pissed them off quite a lot.

Around another 3-4 weeks after this email (24/08/2011) I was approached by a man in the street as I was just getting into my car at 7.15AM to take my girlfriend to work. He showed me his SOCA badge etc and said he needed a 'chat', I stated I needed to take my girlfriend to work otherwise she'll be late. By this point he was standing in between the door of the car and the car itself so I could not close it. Then three other SOCA officers popped out from now where and approached me, with one stating he had a warrant to search my property. I got out of the car to talk things through whilst following them to the door of my house. My girlfriend stated that what they were doing was completely unlawful and that they have no right, one of the responded 'no this is legal, we have a warrant' the officer and my girlfriend argued the difference between unlawful and illegal for a short while to no avail. It was clear to me that if I did not let them in with the key they were going to knock the door down anyway. I asked to see the warrant before letting them in to which I was denied, after standing in front of the door and saying if I don't see the warrant I won't let you in they eventually showed me it. It was a warrant to search my house and car to look for electronic storage devices, laptops, paperwork and anything else related to money laundering and drug offences. Again I would be more than happy to attach a copy of it later if anyone wants to view it? So I let them in and the search began.

They searched one room at a time taking paperwork, laptops, hard drives, numerous mobile phones as well as other items they deemed to be ‘drug related’ such as digital scales. About an hour in another officer arrived the ‘forensic analyst’, she took copies of SIM cards from mobile phones and attempted to take an image of my hard drives but failed. Some other items they took were some Valiums, legal highs/research chemicals and some MHRB used for making a shamanic tea. After around 3-4 hours the search was nearly complete the ‘exhibit officer’ went through the items they had taken with me and asked me to sign, which of course I refused. He actually slipped up and said something like ‘yeah, I wouldn’t sign that if I was you’ which I found quite amusing. Another thing to add is that how did they know I would be leaving my house at 7.15AM to take my girlfriend to work as I do every single day of the week, ‘just a coincidence’ so they claim. I don’t think so; they had obviously been watching me for sometime.

To put all of this into perspective a little better, my previous business sold pharmaceutical machinery (tablet presses etc). Nothing unlawful or even 'illegal', all above board. A client decided to use one of my machines for 'illegal' purposes and got caught, this of course came back to me. The police now see me as an easy way into getting information etc and won't let it go.

To try and cut the long story short I have been victimised by these thugs, I’ve had my work tools stolen from me (laptop etc), which I may not get back for 8 weeks+, I’ve been bullied and intimidated… YET I have not been arrested as of writing this! I guess I’m here writing this asking for advice, confidence etc on what to do next. I feel these machines are trying to arrest me/prosecute me for something. I think my arrest won’t be long now. So could anyone give me any advice? How should I handle myself if I am arrested? What should I say in the interview? Do I need a solicitor?

Sorry if this didn't read very well I posted this on TPUC forum and tried to reformat it here, you can see the full thread on TPUC below.

http://tpuc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=34126

If anyone could give me any advice or help that would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Resist
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Re: Trouble with SOCA, Please Help!

Postby pedawson » Sun Aug 28, 2011 2:17 pm

You have a business, or had a business, that supplied medical instruments.

I don't know what business you are in now, however because you sold a piece of kit to a customer, who used it LAWFULLY and in a manner that the device was manufactured to do. The ACT this person did with your machine was NOT unlawful nor was it illegal.
The FACT is that whatever this person did with the equipment you sold him has NOTHING to do with the crime he is being prosecuted for.

If the perpetrator was selling drugs you would have to know this was the case for you to be implicated.
SOCA seems to be on a fishing expedition and they got you on the line.

You need a quick course in the use of the English language, you really do need to understand what comes from your own mouth is what is either going to save you or damn you.
Remember the caution; "Anything you say MAY be used in evidence AGAINST YOU!"

There can be NO 'colloquialisms' or 'CLEVER' statements what you say has to be FACT and ACCURATE. 'The truth will set you free'.
Why would you even contemplate using a solicitor? For what? - to speak on your behalf? Don't make me laugh.

If, after the search they have completed, they haven't found anything the only thing that will get you into trouble is what is about to come out of your mouth.

I am going to say something that doesn't sound good but it is completely true, I have met with people who, in the course of their day, just MULL along and because they are not in trouble they just ignore what is going on around them. UNTIL TSHTF (The Shit Hits The Fan) At this point all hell lets loose and they go on a mission.
This is NOT what the freeman movement is about - Now I am NOT saying you are one of these people however I am saying it because you conducted yourself and are conducting yourself like a SHEEP; the options you are contemplating WILL get you further in to trouble and anything we have to say on this forum is pointless. We have been saying it for YEARS, only now you don't have the time to digest understand nor use it.

Do you UNDERSTAND WHY we have this forum? it is to disseminate and digest information about what has been going on for years and how we can best tackle the authorities when they do come 'a knocking'.
It is to inform those who are and HAVE been willing to listen and those who KNOW what is going on and what is to come.
I am afraid you are becoming a victim to your own ignorance, I apologise if this seems harsh but I for one am sick to death of speaking with those who have never been affected by what is going on AND as such believe EVERYTHING IS STILL OKAY.

What you MUST do now is become a VOICE that tells everyone that the system we live in is corrupt and is out to criminalise even the innocent.
AND ALL FOR 'FIAT' - NO not a cheap economical car I mean 'FIAT' the stuff you and others THINK is money.
Again I apologise if this post comes across as harsh, I hope that others reading this will learn that WE in this movement are NOT just a bunch of conspiracy theorists or worse 'NUT JOBS' as I have been called.

I hope someone can help in your case however I would not blame them for not getting involved.

By the way WE on this forum, unlike others, do NOT give advice in singular cases nor to individuals at the mercy of the corrupt system. We discuss options that are LEGAL and LAWFUL - We play the authorities at their own game at the same time as providing a basis for the new society we should expect after this one inevitably falls.

Namaste, phil;
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Re: Trouble with SOCA, Please Help!

Postby kevin » Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:56 pm

it's not against their statutes for you to sell one of these machines is it? therefore you have done nothing wrong even by their rules. you sold it...no problem, someone used it for something...nothing to do with you and not your responsibility.
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Re: Trouble with SOCA, Please Help!

Postby huntingross » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:01 pm

Have you ever watched Shrek ?.....Donkey and Shrek are hanging from manacles and Donkey says "I have the right to remain silent" and Shrek says "You have the right to remain silent, but do you have the capacity ?"

These guys have you hooked "good and proper", you're in a nightmare now....but you already know that....good luck to you, you'll need it, there is nothing here to help you at this point.
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Re: Trouble with SOCA, Please Help!

Postby Resist » Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:12 am

Thanks for your comments guys.

@pedawson

I appreciate your thorough post, albeit harsh. I don't think you quite understand me, from what I understand you think 'TSHTF' and only now am looking into the freeman movement. I can assure you that is not the case, I have been very much interested in this way before this SOCA thing came up. I have read Veronicas book and bought copies for friends and family to read. I think perhaps because I'm here writing this thread as my first post asking for advice I have hit a nerve somewhere. I suppose that is understandable as like you say you've seen it before. I am very much aware of the 'basics' and of course understand that money is an illusion, which I realised long before any of this freeman stuff.

I guess all I can do is do more research until I have all the knowledge I need.

Thanks,
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Re: Trouble with SOCA, Please Help!

Postby pitano1 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:03 pm

hi resist.
i have let my thoughts of your treatment,be known via p.m to a moderator.

i wont go into detail here.

have left a link of some vids `yesterday`on tpuc.for you.
hope you find them helpful.

my question to` ALL`,is why have..help wanted,on the site?
if people ask,and not receive.

thats my 2 p`s worth.
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If the machine of government is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law.
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ALL UNALIENABLE RIGHTS RESERVED -AB INITIO - Without Recourse - Non-Assumpsit
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Re: Trouble with SOCA, Please Help!

Postby pedawson » Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:30 pm

I am glad you understand resist, I was harsh, however the situation is the type of situation that has been aggravated in some way.

I may be wrong, and I appreciate your response. Your dilemma is not a good one and you don't need someone telling you what to do, You have to defend yourself and be firm with those that are harassing you. Being clever with these people can only go one way. V's book may not have been any help in your case because she doesn't cover it specifically, and where she eludes to a type of situation similar, it is V and V is eloquent and word-wise as you will know from her book. V can tell you to FUCK OFF and you would thank her for being polite :grin:

My suggestion in the post was to get to grips with how you speak to these 'ASS-HOLES' in future. 'What comes out of your mouth will incriminate you'. So be particular and start by only asking pertinent questions.

I believe they are picking on you, and the reason may be that you have exercised a right they know you have, but are pushing to see if you are bluffing.
They aren't THAT bright but they are not al that dumb either.

Not ADVICE but I would find the specific phraseology that says 'fuck off' and have the correct response if confronted.
Once they know they are on to a hiding for nothing they WILL just go away. After all THEY HAVE NOTHING TO START WITH.

HAVE THEY!

I will encourage you to stay on this path, it is an honourable path and I am sure you too are, honourable.
For this situation NOW, try dissecting some of the important elements and rephrase your question, and I am sure you will get a better response.
As it stands now it reads 'frustration', action-less and in the final stages of the death throw.

Complicated is the word I am looking for :grin:

By the way well done for not just throwing in the towel even after not much by the way of response. Hang in there you're not alone.

Namaste, phil;
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Re: Trouble with SOCA, Please Help!

Postby huntingross » Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:02 pm

This was interesting

http://www.nuisancelaw.com/learn/tort

Defendants gave up ownership and control of their products when the products were sold to plaintiffs. Defendants now lack the legal right to abate whatever hazards their products may pose; ownership and possession lie exclusively with plaintiffs. If the defendants exercised no control over the instrumentality, then a remedy directed against them is of little use. ... Plaintiffs' proper remedies, were they not barred by the running of the limitation period, are products liability actions for negligence or breach of warranty.


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Re: Trouble with SOCA, Please Help!

Postby Resist » Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:19 pm

@pedawson
Thanks again for your comments. I will take what you've said on board, it does makes sense.

@huntingross
Thanks for that, that is interesting.

My question to all is what to do if/when they come to arrest me. As pedawson says getting the correct 'phraseology' is of utmost importance if I am confronted. However if that is not enough and they are still adamant on arresting me and taking me to the station then what would be my next best tactic? I think complete silence is the best bet, if you don't say anything then there can be no contact. If I do not give them my name, DOB or address, then surely there can be no contract. What are peoples views on this?
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Re: Trouble with SOCA, Please Help!

Postby pedawson » Tue Aug 30, 2011 5:11 pm

In my humble opinion there is only one phrase that one can say on being cautioned.
"I retain my right to be silent and anything I wish to state will be stated in front of a judge and a jury of my peers".

Never, never make the statement "No Comment" No comment is a comment, and is taken as if what you say on the matter it will incriminate you.
In an interview you will be asked to confirm many things that you believe to be true however, the interviewer will be leading you to a conclusion that, in the end, you will have to agree with.
A classic example of what the authorities 'TEACH' in an 'interrogation' / 'interview'; 'Name, Rank, Serial Number' and nothing else. These are NOT my words but my training in both the Navy and the Army; I received commendation by the SAS for my ability under extreme duress.

Questions are the enemy of the authorities and answers are their friend. What they require is a statement of fact from you on the lines that complement their accusations; you do not stand a chance after such a statement is given.
If they HAD enough evidence to prosecute you, you would not be asked to make a statement you would be prosecuted because you ARE guilty.
The evidence would stand on its own as sufficient to prosecute.

If you are to speak, and I say this in relation to what I would do, asking on what charges are being brought. Once they have stated the charge they cannot at a later stage bring other charges, short of perjuring themselves:
2. False statements on oath made otherwise than in a judicial proceeding.
If any person
(1) being required or authorised by law to make any statement on oath for any purpose, and being lawfully sworn (otherwise than in a judicial proceeding) wilfully makes a statement which is material for that purpose and which he knows to be false or does not believe to be true ; or
(2) wilfully uses any false affidavit for the purposes of the Bills of Sale Act, 1878, as amended by any. subsequent enactment, he shall be guilty of a misdemeanour, and, on conviction thereof on indictment, shall be liable to penal servitude for a term not exceeding seven years or to imprisonment, with or without hard labour, for a term not exceeding two years, or to a fine or to both such penal servitude or imprisonment and fine.


You will, possibly, be denied proper process.
You need to ask, "What evidence was provided that satisfied the criteria for an indictable offence in order for the search warrant to be served?"
Was the warrant a 'Specific premises warrant' or 'All premises warrant?'
Was the warrant a 'Multiple entry warrant?'
What were the reasonable grounds for suspicion?

Were you 'GIVEN' a copy of the warrant? This is 'PROCEDURAL' and is 'REQUIRED'; Sec 16 of the police and criminal evidence act 1984.
You are allowed to inspect the warrant (and should be allowed to do so) during the 12 month retaining period; the documentation (warrant) should be endorsed with 'Articles or Persons 'SOUGHT' (what they were looking for) It 'MAY' include 'excluded material' such as personal records; these may not be included in the warrant.

From the above questions you will get a better understanding as to WHAT they have on you.
What they were looking for, how they explained the reason for a search and what they found. From this you will know more than they will tell you outright.

Will pop back in and maybe mention the interview procedure, if someone else doesn't do it first.

Namaste, phil;
Hope this helps, sure cuts down your work load.
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