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Re: Strategy for withdrawal of payment of income tax

PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:43 pm
by spontaneous J
hey

I feel this is a big question - as was pointed out well by some of you on another one of the boards (I believe), stopping the money supply is one thing that will hit them for real - when there's a critical mass they'll be pretty stuffed.

I was at the lawful rebellion conference yesterday. They were handing out templates for a suggested way forward. I believe with this freeman on the land thing that we should be able to legitimately stop paying period, because its not our society etc etc. However, this was the suggestion:

To give notice to employer/bank/mps/council/etc that you are ceasing to pay and will be placing the funds in a escrow account which is bound and limited by specific terms - which you define. I.e. the "would be tax" is put into a holding account which the government cannot access until the conditions are met.

Chris coverdale who was suggesting this basically said - its provable the government is guilty of genocide and we are all complicit, so make the limiting conditions - " until a court rules that there is no way the government can do this again " - or similar.

but the problem I have with this is it almost legitimizes the tax in the first instance, which I cant agree with.

My next thought was why not make the conditions - until the government becomes constitutional - i.e. is acting within the constitutional constraints which exist - i.e. magna carta and the declaration of rights (and most importantly first, leaves the EUSSR). I think it could be fairly construed that the constitution does not support income tax at all, because fines, taxes and forfeits without services rendered, without representation etc etc are invalid. So in this case when the government becomes legitimate the money would have to be returned to us because it could no longer take it?

There are clearly wide holes in these initial thoughts, it doesn't quite add up, but I guess I'm putting it out here to see what people think?

The escrow account would at least give us time to work out something more robust. But I imagine some of you already have that in place?

In my case at least my employer couldn't really refuse the escrow option, because then in his mind and as far as his books are concerned the tax is being paid.

Food for thought maybe? other thoughts anyone?

Re: Strategy for withdrawal of payment of income tax

PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:41 pm
by Chipper
I think that putting your money in an escrow account would be simply depriving yourself of your own funds on the assumption that the government will one day give up all their evil ventures and stop sucking up tons of wealth for themselves, why put yourselve through ANY form of hardship for them full stop, wether they change their ways or not. Just my opinion. :psst:

Re: Strategy for withdrawal of payment of income tax

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 6:23 pm
by jonboy
MrFrodo wrote:I do not dissagree Jonboy, but I have a statement asking for ££££ (mid year installment) and chances are when they do not get it they will write asking for it, and then comes court summons etc. I could always tell them I'm no longer in business but there is the risk of discovery, or I could pay what they ask for this year and then ensure in subsequent years that I do not have to pay them anything via finding enough expenses to make me exempt....I'd rather not pay them another penny though. I'm caught between flying under the radar or sticking my two fingers up at them clearly and writing them a letter and doing it openly.

MrFrodo


This is all very un-freemanlike, So fucking what if they write and ask for it, If I asked for a Box of spaghetti would you give it to me? And so what If you get a summons, just make a special appearance and claim common-law jurisdiction. Don't let these bullies scare you dude. Tell me one reason why you should pay them a penny, you worked for it, you keep it.

Re: Strategy for withdrawal of payment of income tax

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:32 pm
by jonboy
Sorry for that rant, have had a bad day today. My van broke down this morning and my house got struck by lighning this evening. :cry:

Re: Strategy for withdrawal of payment of income tax

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:40 pm
by huntingross
Oh jon.....God's getting at you again.

I'm not very clear on how to stop my employer giving my money away to the HMRC....they believe they are bound to, and the HMRC tell them as much....my reply to an FOI on the subject was laughable.....the employer is wrapped in red tape they would never want to break.

Re: Strategy for withdrawal of payment of income tax

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:45 pm
by jonboy
Yeah being emplyed is a tricky situation. I'm glad I work for myself, just the idea of my labour making someone else rich sickens me now. You could try and become a sub-contractor or freelance but still keep your job?? :sun:

Re: Strategy for withdrawal of payment of income tax

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:47 pm
by MrFrodo
Hi JonBoy,

Rant away :P -- Sorry to hear about the van...and the lightening ? !! :P

I disagree about my want to look into the different options as unfreemanlike. It is wise to work out a strategy and not just run on in blind. I am exploring the possibilities that come to mind, I actually happen to agree that the best move is to do it openly and write them a notice. I do not see it as the only option though. I have a family to consider, as do many following this 'movement' and therefore choosing the right strategy involves various considerations depending on your situation. As mentioned I do not want to run into any future situation 'blind' and am hence keen to know if anyone has gone to court on this before and if so whats their story? Is it not wise to see where people have tried and failed or suceeded when plotting your own route?

Hobbeeet

Re: Strategy for withdrawal of payment of income tax

PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 11:20 pm
by huntingross
I think there is merit in an account to decouple employer from HMRC.....in the context of PAYE

My thinking is this....notify the HMRC and the Employer that you refuse to co-operate with taxes on the basis of war crimes and that continuance is aid and abetting....a charge the employer probably wouldn't want to shoulder when the honourable alternative is to deposit the tax portion in a separate account (bank account #2) whilst wages continue to go into bank account #1.

It might work....the employer is discharged from their responsibilty to pay the tax, they would reasonably wash their hands of the matter leaving it to me and HMRC to slug it out.

Re: Strategy for withdrawal of payment of income tax

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 9:06 pm
by sindakit
Would that method not still leave the employer ina bad position HR?

If the employer pays the tax portion into your seperate bank account (#2) then they are still not making the payments towards the HMRC. Which is the issue in the first instances except now you have seperated the taxed wage and the tax :puzz:

Re: Strategy for withdrawal of payment of income tax

PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2010 9:56 pm
by huntingross
I don't know sindakit....but an escrow account does seem to fulfill the possibility of honouring a responsibility contingent on proof of something.

Musashi has written a good piece on exiting the PAYE system, which looks like a viable option

viewtopic.php?f=63&t=4184&hilit=+paye+exit&start=0#p39238