Trust oriented mortgage discussion

The nature, history and formation of Trusts.

Re: Trust oriented mortgage discussion

Postby bustthematrix » Wed Jan 13, 2010 9:02 pm

Hi All

I found the below at justanswer.com while doing some research. I thought it might be helpful in our deliberations.
Question
Hi, When a mortgage Deed is signed for a Uk residential mortgage, can you explain a couple of things to me please?

Why it is only the borrower that signs and witnesses the document? Why doesn't the lender sign it?
Also, what rights have actually been signed away by the borrower with a mortgage deed?
How and why is a deed used?
Why are we asked not to date the deed on signing it? and why is the date only filled in on the day of completion?
I was told that a deed is binding on me to pay, even when "there is no consideration"- what does this actually mean?
I am trying to understand why there is no apparent contract in a mortgage, other than the mortgage deed and the huge power a deed appears to have.
What documents constitute a mortgage contract?
Also, when one company transfers a mortgage to another company, is it common practice for the account numbers to stay the same?

Thank you for your help.
Submitted: 158 days and 6 hours ago.
Category: UK Property Law Value: £20 Status: CLOSED

Accepted Answer
hi
the mortgage deed is signed only by the borrowers as it is a deed that assigns the benefits of a property which they own - it is not a contract
the borrower has assigned the interest in the property and given away the right to receive all the benefit of the sale proceeds and the right to unchallengable ownership of their property
a deed is used to enable the mortgage company to gain rights to te property
you do not date it as you usually sign the documents in adavance of the completion day and therefore have not received the money (and probably do not own the property)
i am not sure that i understand the context of the "no consideration" comment - the money is only repayable if you have received it
the mortgage deed is not a contract - it is an assignment of the property involved
the contract is in effect the mortgage offer and its acceptance as evidenced by the recipt of the monies and is made up of the offer and the linked terms and conditions and the deed itself
it is entirely up to the companies whether or not they keep the same roll numbers but in general they do as it is simpler for the customers
claire
Read more: http://www.justanswer.com/questions/2e2yj-hi-when-a-mortgage-deed-is-signed-for-a-uk-residential-mortgage#ixzz0cWoqVmOW
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Re: Trust oriented mortgage discussion

Postby Highspirit » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:30 am

Thanks BTM, and there you have it, a 'Trust'. There is a Grantor (you the 'owner'), a 'Beneficiary' (The bank) but who is the 'Trustee'? All 3 titles must exist for a 'Trust' to be in place, albeit implied the crafty feckers.

What is the Trust 'res' or property?

If you look at the fact that a 'Trustee' is responsible for meeting all financial liabilities of the Trust then who do you think will be the 'Trustee'? If the 'Trust is based around the 'Mortgage Deed' which it seems to be as that document carries your unqualified signature.

So, the Trustee must be the same as the Grantor, so you the 'owner' are the Grantor/Trustee. Now of course there can als be several Trustees but there can also be several othe Trusts as well which may spin off the 'Mortgage Deed' Trust.

Now, it is accepted that if titles of Trustee and Beneficiary are merged then a Trust no longer exists, it has to terminate as you cannot have the Trustee and Beneficary holding same title. If you wanted to maintain the Trust then of course one would appoint another Trustee as well but we don't, we want to terminate the 'Trust' to our advantage. This is the point, the Grantor once expressed should be able to apply his own Trust laws and move the titles to terminate the Trust. Then of course the 'Mortgage Deed' should become null and void and the 'res' should become property of the Grantor.

What do we have to do to achieve this? Well he who claims Trust must prove Trust so we have to be able to prove the 'Trust' before we then move in and claim it. Proving the 'Trust' is something we are also working on but we are half way there becuase the 'Mortgage Deed' use Trust terminology.

Thanks
HS :)

The 'res' we think is the agreement/t's and c's and the property itself stands surety. This is something we are still working on.
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Re: Trust oriented mortgage discussion

Postby city boy 5705 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:49 pm

as a man who has had a few properties stolen by the banksters, this thread is of immense interest.
One i thing i was told a while ago, The Rothchilds invented/used/use forms of Trusts that are allegedly unbreakable and, as they started the whole central bank/fraction reserve/financial "system" we have in place today it is not unreasonable to assume that maybe Trusts are an important piece of our jigsaw!
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Re: Trust oriented mortgage discussion

Postby bustthematrix » Mon Feb 01, 2010 3:06 pm

Hello HighSpirit et al

Where've you all gone? No further posts to this rather interesting topic? :cry:
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Re: Trust oriented mortgage discussion

Postby nameless » Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:06 pm

Bump
“Whoever may be guilty of abuse of power, be it Government, State, Employer, Trade Union or whoever, the law must provide a speedy remedy. Otherwise the victims will find their own remedy."

Lord Denning
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Re: Trust oriented mortgage discussion

Postby Highspirit » Fri Feb 05, 2010 8:24 am

Hi BTM,

Still about my friend, am just deep into the research of this subject which to me is making sense more and more everyday. I have joined a research group on Skype with many UK/USA people involved. I have come to realise for myself that Debtor/Creditor route is probably not the route to take.

If you would like to join this group then let me know and I will send you an invite. However, if you just want to start learning more about Trust then there is a link I can post with all the auidos and e-books there for you for Free to start seeing if this makes sense to you.

Why does it make sense to me? Because when the Banks stole our Gold they knew that all common law/contract law would become obsolete because all financial contracts need 'valuable consideration' from all parties. They didn't have any as there was then only 'fiat currency' not 'money'. Trust Law is now the colour of common law and it fits in very nicely with their deceitful methods and ways. So, all those who approach financial contracts thinking firstly there was no valuable consideration and secondly no disclosure are in fact quite wrong. Under Trust Law they can put you in a Trust, bring nothing of value and disclose nothing at all and do all this quite legitmately.

Let me know if you want more info.

Blessings

HS
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Re: Trust oriented mortgage discussion

Postby huntingross » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:58 pm

HS

I would love to see some ground up info presented on a researchable database (like a thread)....

Trusts interest me alot, but I also have an awful lot of other plates spinning at the moment, so I need to be able to dip in and out and build up my knowledge.....I haven't found the skype group to be useful because there is no way to dip in and out whilst building on a foundation...

I posed a question on skype quite some days ago....I can't understand how someone can be appointed as trustee without their knowledge or consent....helpfully it was explained as trustee assignment......that told me nothing and smacked of information is power....those that have and those that do not....

I haven't found anything in the few references I have on this subject to bare this out....or how and why it is possible....it goes against every natural law in the world.
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Re: Trust oriented mortgage discussion

Postby bustthematrix » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:41 pm

Hi HS

Thanks for the offer. Yes, it would be interesting to see more info on the Trust side of things.

I did have a brief look into the subject sometime last year when it was initially mentioned here but like HR, found there did not seem to be a structure to much of the information so I found it a bit hard going. I also struggle to see the objective and the form of the solution it's trying to bring about. Can you expound on this? :geek:

The point relating to the disappearance of 'Real money', is interesting but it may be flawed. Why? The bankers did not take gold away. What they did was unhitch it from the fiat stuff so they were no longer linked. People can still acquire and pay for some things with Gold and Silver, though not as easily as the fiat stuff of course. In fact this is recommended by many as a hedge to when the fiat stuff crashes or hyperinflates.

Perhaps most importantly though, is there anyone who's used the methodology and achieved anything of value based upon it?

That's one thing that can be said in favour of creditor-debtor though, results have been achieved by some (especially outside the UK), and often when they're not in default to start with!
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Re: Trust oriented mortgage discussion

Postby Highspirit » Mon Feb 15, 2010 10:49 am

Hi HR, OK, let me answer you question best I can. Firstly however, I am now totally convinced myself that Debtor/Creditor is a blind alley. It has been useful learning the info but a lot of it is irrelevant.

I have come to understand that absolutely everything is a Trust. And I mean EVERYTHING!!!

I would suggest starting your research in the July Audio's of Christian Walters which I think he has now posted on his website at www.movingtitles.com.

Let me answer your question;

The secret is that no party to the trust needs to know or understand that a trust is being formed. Formed is the key word, along with ‘administered’. You don’t have to put your assets into a trust to protect them; they’re already in trust.

You see, when you were entered into the Trust, the Trust was formed already without your knowledge at-all. The Lender for example, once you have executed a financial 'contract' (for want of a better word) has started the Trust. They have allocated the titles and made you Trustee but in effect as per the fact that there is no Money etc and that they have hold of the Trust 'Res' (your promissory note say) then they are Trustee anyway. It is just that you have not expressed the Trust becuase you had no idea about it. Then when it goes to court, the court construe you as Trustee and therefore 'guilty'.

The main point being is that the Trust has already been formed from day one and the Lender whether they like it or not are ALREADY THE TRUSTEE, but because you didn't know there was a Trust and they have POA then they made you Trustee, they moved the title. However, because they hold the 'res' which is also the 'Special Deposit', they from day one are the Trustee, it is just that you have not identified the 'res' (with your original signature) which makes you the Grantor/Settlor and therefore you have the power to move the title back to them, they cannot refuse it, how can they? They were the Trustee from day one when you realise and express the Trust.

So, although I hear where you are coming from that the Trustee can refuse the title of Trustee (as per Gilberts etc) it doesn't actually work in this scenario as when the Trust was established they commenced life as the Trustee anyway. They are the original Trustee, it is not something they can suddenly decide they don't want anymore. They cannot refuse the title although in circumstances where a Trust is under initial set-up one of course can refuse the Trustee title.

I hope that helps but if not then it is something I am happy to get a few of us on a call to explain it in full detail.

BTM, I hear where you are coming from with 'Money' but would you not agree that ALL PUBLIC DEBT is 'Fiat'? In other words, yes we realise that there is still 'real money' around but certainly not in realtion to where everyone is looking for solutions in the 'public debt'. And of course, AV4 is accepted as working and being quite viable so that again would indicate that the 'Public' has no real money. Everything in the public is a Trust, Everything, IMHO.

New Trust Technology is absolutely Brand New. The guy behind it 'Christian Walters' has been doing Debtor/Creditor for 17yrs until he realised everything is a Trust.

He admits that there is a success rate of about 10% on Debtor/Creditor which he says is down to the fact that they allow a small percentage of success to keep the masses on the wrong path. I agree with him. He is already eliminating Mortgages in the USA yes, the technology is so new that it has not been tried in the UK, yet, but things are imminent.

Christian is estimating success level using Trust Technology way way above the 10% and indications so far would suggest he is right (in the USA). The exciting thing being that Trust Law stems from England in its most current format and is universal in its use.

When I say I have turned my back on Debtor/Creditor, I still use Notices (in the private), Affidavits and Commercial Liens which I do not see as D/C but as Private remedy process. I am only using theses aspects whilst I evelop my understanding and use of Trust Tech. which I expect to be using within the next few months.

The idea of Trusts is to express the Trust where you have given your unqualified signature and you become the 'Grantor/Settlor' and move the titles to suit you. If for example you merge titles then it terminates the Trust and if there has been something like a 'Special Deposit' involved (like a promissory note) for example then has the 'Trustee' been co-mingling that Special Deposit with Public Funds? (Serious Breach of Trust), Have they converted your 'Special Deposit'? (Another serious Breach of Trust). The Lender then has to compensate you for their very serious breaches.

You can express the Trust by proving the Trust and you do that by expressing the Intent and Purpose of the Trust in the first place (at its inception). That can be done at anytime, for example, you have only just found out that you are involved in a Trust some 10yrs later in a Mortgage. You can then take the Trust 'nunc-pro-tunc', express it, move titles and then terminate the trust and collect the Spcial Deposit that is owed to you. And of course any compensation due if they have abused the Trust, like co-mingled Trust 'res' funds for example.

The actual workings of doing this are something that is being developed (templates and approach to lenders etc). There is also so much more behind the Trust aspect that is also being developed that is very exciting.

Hope all this helps.

I see Trusts as the only way forward as they certainly envelope everything imo.

Namaste

HS :)
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Re: Trust oriented mortgage discussion

Postby The Freeman-on-the-Land known as Michael » Mon Feb 15, 2010 11:53 am

With all due respect HS, there is still no sign of a substantive method on that site; just more unproven theory and a hefty price tag for a workshop on the ever-elusive remedy. For what its worth, having researched all the theories that you have posted on this thread and others over the course of the last year or so, I have learned that it saves time to reject all those which do not provide proof of claim, especially when people are being charged for the privilege of sharing an unproven theory.

New Trust Technology is absolutely Brand New. The guy behind it 'Christian Walters' has been doing Debtor/Creditor for 17yrs until he realised everything is a Trust.

He admits that there is a success rate of about 10% on Debtor/Creditor which he says is down to the fact that they allow a small percentage of success to keep the masses on the wrong path. I agree with him. He is already eliminating Mortgages in the USA yes, the technology is so new that it has not been tried in the UK, yet, but things are imminent.


Has he posted any proof that he is eliminating mortgages in the US? My own experience of the so-alled Creditor/Debtor method is 100% success when applied correctly. Do you believe that I am a fully paid-up disinfo agent, programmed to keep the masses on the wrong track? That the PTB are merely allowing me to succeed in order to fool people into emulating my methods?

Christian is estimating success level using Trust Technology way way above the 10% and indications so far would suggest he is right (in the USA). The exciting thing being that Trust Law stems from England in its most current format and is universal in its use.


Do you suppose Christian would have many people interested in forking out a couple of hundred quid for his 20 hour workshop if he was estimating that its success rate would not exceed the Creditor/Debtor method? Conversely, do you believe that he wouldn't have more people interested in finding the money if he had posted proof of claim to back up his theories? Why does he even need to charge for the workshop if he has engineered a knockout remedy using Trust Law?

I do not seek to debate these issues, nor is it my intention to hijack or discredit this thread. As always, my only aim is to pose questions which might lead others to discover for themselves what was hidden in plain sight all along.

Namaste
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