Buchenwald

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Buchenwald

Postby Farmerboy » Sat Oct 10, 2009 10:05 am

[Edit by Veronica: My apologies to Member Farmerboy who started this Topic ... which ended up in our Chamber of Horrors. This should NOT be considered to be any sleight on him. (Or anyone who posted in support ... including myself). The reason for this Topic ending up here is purely down to the actions of the EX-Member (now permanently banned) "Oliver Cromwell" ... as can be seen throughout, and at the end of, the Topic]

This film is made by a jewish bloke who now, apparently, has a price on his head. You can watch it at Google video or download it all and mix it in something like Nero and then play it on your dvd player.

His website is www.onethirdoftheholocaust.com and it's pretty good.

Thing is, I have actually been to Belsen and walked around it. German kids have to go to a camp twice during their schooling to remind them of what they used to be and this is all wrong. They weren't even born when this happened and it is all, IMO, based on a lie. When I was there, something didn't add up. First off, you would have had to go willingly. Or, you were lied to before you went or you were lied to afterwards and I include all of us in that last group.

A lot of people get very het up when discussing the Holocaust to the point that in Germany, it is illegal to deny that it happened. Personally, I don't deny that it happened but I do question that it happened in that way. On a trip to Amsterdam, I went to the Jewish museum and found it to be a holocaust museum. And that is the same the world over. I was an extra in Saving Private Ryan and met Spielberg. He is very Jewish and pro holocaust. The jewish angle was played a lot in that film although not all of it made it to the final cut. Been there, acted in it.

Commonly believed history tells us that every camp was a death camp when my own research tells me that some were but most were labour camps.

Commonly believed history tells us that all Germans are bastards (just ask my mum for her opinion and i've nominated her for the nobel peace prize!) when I found most Germans to be really nice people.

Commonly believed history tells us that WW2 was about the Germens destroying the Jews which is a load of crap. WW2 was just an extension of WW1, the financial trapping of germany as a nation and the control from the Busch family from the USA. Amongst other things. And anyway, when did the Great War become WW2? Who renamed it and when?

I have believed for a long time that every war is a war crime. That we need to evolve as a species. We need to live in the present and strive for a better future. That all people are naturally good. We need to move on.

In order to do that, we need to leave some beliefs of ours - as an individual and as a species - behind.

Your comments are as always, warmly received.

Farmerboy
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Re: Buchenwald

Postby Oliver Cromwell » Sat Oct 10, 2009 11:08 am

Farmer,

I have read your interesting post on the Holocaust. Before I answer in some detail I want to say I completely defend your right to question the official version of the Holocaust. Many have. And we should always question history.

But let me ask you a few basic questions -

1. What IS the 'official' version of the Holocaust ?

2. From what source can it be obtained ?

3. Thirdly, You will surely make a distinction between the German people and the evil fascist thugs, the Nazis, who took over Germany, won't you ?

and lastly -

4. What do you think happened to over 10 million Jews, Gypsies, Resistance fighters, and other 'undesirables' (men, women and children) who were recorded as being held at these camps and never returned to their homes after World War 2 ? Where did they go ?

Thanks and with willingness to discuss this issue with you.

I note your thread is called 'Buchenwald'. Why ? Do you wish to speak only of Buchenwald ? I agree to discuss this subject with you if you will first answer the above 4 basic questions. So we can have a fair discussion on this issue having agreed on its scale, its scope and context.

Looking forward to your reply

Sincerely
'He whom the Son has made free is free indeed'
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Re: Buchenwald

Postby Farmerboy » Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:15 pm

Hi Ollie

Before we start, I would just like to state that I am not anti-zion, anti-semite or anti-jew. I am pro peace. Been in the army and now a confirmed pacifist.

First question. The official version is the one that we are all led to believe.

Second question. From where? From everywhere!

Third question. Don't really understand. Because I question who is it that tells us that they were "evil fascist thugs, the Nazis, who took over Germany", as you so warmly put it? Who tells us to believe that? We live in a country (GB) that is not too dissimilar to 1930's germany right now.

The main, general, point that I raised is that most of what we are told, and in this specific case in relation to the history of WW2, is propaganda. History is written by the victors and they will leave out what they want and fabricate what they need to make their story balance. This has been going on since time began, is going on now and will go on into the future.

Finally, 10 million? Who gave you that figure? Is that the official figure or the one the allies decided to use or the real figure? Why that figure? 10 million exactly or about 10 million? I don't dispute that people died - lots of people. And you will have noticed that in my original post I mention that people, today, get very emotional about this subject. How many people died on 911? two planes crashed, three buildings collapsed and how many died? According to google it could be 2,819 or it could be 2993 according to wikipedia. Why do they want you to believe this? What else is going on?

Finally (b) Buchenwald is the name of the film. That's why I titled my post 'Buchenwald'. No other reason so stop making stuff up. It is the camp that he focuses upon because he considers that it was the first camp, of that type, that was 'discovered' by the allies. I understand that you are offended and that the subject matter has hit a nerve. That's OK, but as a member of this forum, you should recognise your reaction and you should be asking why.

Could I just add that when I put out a subject on how we have been misled in the past I understand that it is always going to be, to some, controversial. Life is a matter of degree. Reading your reply, I do detect a degree of "I am offended". As I say, some people get very het up about these things. I question what I am told and all of a sudden I am a hitler sympathiser! Not the case. Why do people react this way? If the subject matter were aspartame or father christmas it would be very different but you mention the holocaust...

Nobody mentions how many died at the hands of the russians or through famine and disease at the end of the war. All we are allowed to count is how many died at the hands of the "evil fascist thugs, the Nazis, who took over Germany", to quote you again. Nobody mentions how many civillians died at the hands of the allies or the fact that we invented the concentration camp. Because there are good guys (white hats) and bad guys (black hats) and I propose that this theory is used to divide people from common sense. We won't be able to move on unless this issue gets addressed. People should reasonably consider these 'facts' and consider them to be a myth. Why? Then let me ask you, how many afghanistanis have died so far? How many Iraqis? And you want me to go along with it?

I am questioning what we are being told. We are being told that it is 'true' and it has got to such a point that you are not allowed to question what they say. That alone, should run a red flag up your pole!

Finally, one should be able to have a fair discussion without having to qualify ones opinion.


Rgds

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Re: Buchenwald

Postby ScotFree » Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:41 pm

"I am questioning what we are being told. We are being told that it is 'true' and it has got to such a point that you are not allowed to question what they say. That alone, should run a red flag up your pole! "

Before 911 I reasearched Auschwitz for over a year.
I hgave met 2 Auschwitz surviors, one when I was 9 years old in Munich and one in 2002,
http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&ei=fKrQSrfpJpOJ4QaKlq3-Ag&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&ved=0CBAQBSgA&q=zoe+polanska+palmer&spell=1&fp=55b1114b05e94ce9

Mrs Zoe Polanska-Palmer wrote "Yalta Victim" she is a christian Russian and was liberated.
She said NO gaz chambers in Auschwitz [there were de-lousing chambers].

Also read about
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Dodd_(Auschwitz_survivor)

After being held in a number of ordinary Italian POW camps, in 1943, he was transferred to Auschwitz III (Monowitz) labour camp only five miles away from the better-known extermination camp of Auschwitz II (Birkenau).

his book Spectator In Hell ... no gaz chambers.

"On January 23 1945, four days before Auschwitz was liberated by the Red Army, in the coldest winter Poland had experienced for years, the British POWs were given the option by their German guards to either start walking eastwards towards the Russians or westwards towards the Americans. Dodd chose the latter. In the weeks of walking during this 'Death March', when the temperature often dropped to minus 25 degrees, the walking men froze, and some starved to death. As they walked they passed the partially snow-covered bodies of hundreds of dead Jews, some of whom had died from cold or their exertions, while others had clearly been shot."

http://www.google.co.uk/webhp?hl=en#hl=en&source=hp&q=arthur+dodds+auchwitz&btnG=Google+Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=arthur+dodds+auchwitz&fp=55b1114b05e94ce9
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Re: Buchenwald

Postby Farmerboy » Sat Oct 10, 2009 5:47 pm

Hi Scotfree

I am glad someone else has joined this conversation. This to me, is important because everything that I have been taught thus far, by the establishment, seems to hang on the previous truth - it daisy chains - and it would appear that it is built on lies.

Can I ask if you have seen the film 'Buchenwald' and if so, what did you think of it? You seem to be well versed in these matters.

Finding my own way...

FB
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Re: Buchenwald

Postby Sophia » Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:36 am

It is courageous, wise and fundamental to look at the very fabric of history/propaganda.
History is now almost entirely merely the propaganda of the victor.
Keep up the good work and remember observe your emotions and follow them logically to see whether you are leading yourself to or from the truth. Always check.
remember, those people with an agenda are un enlightenable - judas had an agenda and was furious when he couldn't get jesus to fulfill it for him - some folk are not worth wasting your time on, but remember who they are and don't get drawn in - they can waste your energy and bring you down - guilt is their most common method. Never ever feel guilt for your enquiring mind.
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Re: Buchenwald

Postby Farmerboy » Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:52 am

Wise words, kiddo

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Re: Buchenwald

Postby huntingross » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:10 am

Nobody mentions how many civillians died at the hands of the allies


For me, Britains finest hour was Dresden.....the account had a profound effect on me....and shocked me that I had only learned about it a few years ago, and only because I bothered to dig for the story.
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Re: Buchenwald

Postby holy vehm » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:34 am

Its illegal in this country to be a holocaust denier.
i too doubt the official history.
Dresden was indeed are finest hour, when you look at the city after we bombed it you cant help but feel ashamed to be british, so called british men decided to completly level that city and killed hundreds of thousands of men women and children. Dresden at that time had absolutly no military value, it was "shock and awe" to use a modern phrase.
The american fighter pilots murdered hundreds of thousands of men woman and children fleeing another german city which was under siege on all sides. They were running along the roads fleeing the city when the pilots were given orders to shot, and they did.
The russians killed millions of german civilians.
Hitler commited many human atrocities but the allies where his equal.

Is it right for iraq or iran to invade us, and target us or our chlidren because of what blair brown and bush have done. I didnt vote for it, not in my name was this done, so why should i die, and it was the same for the german people.

The british and americans knew what was going on in the death camps but did nothing and re claiming europe was nothing to do with saving any jew or gypsie or even our own soldiers.

I dont doubt that there was a jewish holocaust but there was also a german holocaust.

Contentious,

HV
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Re: Buchenwald

Postby gepisar » Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:54 am

Farmerboy wrote:Nobody mentions how many died at the hands of the russians or through famine and disease at the end of the war.

FB

People also seem to forget the TWENTY-FIVE MILLION Russians that were killed during WW2. Now Im no expert, but figures I hear about how many Jew were killed range from 2million to 6million. 25 million Russians. Yes, the holocaust did happen, but which one are you referring too?

Finally, one should be able to have a fair discussion without having to qualify ones opinion.

Have to challenge you on this point. I have the opinion that no one was killed in WW2. It was all lies. Now, lets have a fair discussion. There MUST be some level of qualification, or a starting point upon which I can satisfy myself that your opinions have merit to move forward my thinking. Peoples beliefs are close to their identities, and wont let go of them easily.
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